lugnut Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) At a match today we had a shooting position that required shooting thru a large plastic pipe. Must have been a large sewer pipe or something it was about 2 feet in diameter. You had to squat low or you could use a cushion and shoot on your knees. We had a younger kid with shorts on have a case land onto the cushion an roll right onto/under is knee. I saw that it had hurt him but I wasn't sure how much and had him continue. Could he have stopped for safety issues? Should I have stopped him? I also had an issue where a piece of brass must have bounced off the pipe and went right down the back of my shirt. No one saw it but I sure as hell felt it but kept going. If this happened to someone else could they have stopped them self? If I had one go down my glasses... I sure I would stop myself... or someone else if I saw that happen. What's the right way to handle this? Edited July 15, 2013 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 No stopping. I have seen brass go behind a guys glasses and he just flicked it out and kept shooting. And yes, it left a mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGMorden Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Personally I wouldn't stop the shooter in the case of brass going down a shirt. If they want to stop themselves that's fine but the stage will be scored as shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Hmm. I'm mixed about this actually. If I saw a bee go into someone's eye/shirt I'd probably stop them... for safety reasons. Brass is a tough one though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 While I feel for the shooter, and I have gotten brass behind my glasses, it is not any different than slipping as they run the course. If they injure themselves they can stop and we will deal with it, but there is not rule that allows a reshoot unless some sort of REF caused the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 This is a tough one for me. There is no rule to stop them. I'm sure I could come up with a safety issue type rule to cite, but then what about the aforementioned "tripping"? I guess tripping is "self caused", whereas brass in the glasses or bees in the shirt are not "self induced". Hmmmm, this one will have to wait for it to happen before I will say definitely. I'll probably never see these,.......knock on wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I hate to be the skeptic here, but what would stop a shooter from claiming contact with hot brass in order to reshoot a tanked stage? When hot brass contacts your skin, you have two options: shake it off or work through it. If you ask me it's a part of this game; this is practical shooting, not optimal conditions shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If I were RO (I say while sitting in an office chair) I would stop them for safety reasons and give a reshoot. This is a freak occurrence and there is no reason to be a tough guy about it. Just reset and do it again. It isn't like someone can do it on purpose just to get a reshoot on a poor stage or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I shot a stage with a number of walls. I had a piece of brass bounce of a wall and fall behind my glasses. The total time spent reacting to the brass, clearing the brass and getting back into the game was maybe all of one second, two at the most. I had the problem cleared before a RO would have been even able to react to the situation. I feel for the shooter, but it is part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If I were RO (I say while sitting in an office chair) I It isn't like someone can do it on purpose just to get a reshoot on a poor stage or something.sure they could. And would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If I were RO (I say while sitting in an office chair) I would stop them for safety reasons and give a reshoot. This is a freak occurrence and there is no reason to be a tough guy about it. Just reset and do it again. It isn't like someone can do it on purpose just to get a reshoot on a poor stage or something. What rule would you cite to explain the reshoot to the other members of the squad? I can't find one that allows for this, with the possible exception of 5.4.3/5.4.4, should they lose their eye protection while clearing the brass: 5.4.3 If a Range Official notices that a competitor has lost or displaced their eye or ear protection during a course of fire, or has commenced a course of fire without them, the Range Official must immediately stop the competitor who will be required to reshoot the course of fire after the protective devices have been restored. 5.4.4 A competitor who inadvertently loses eye or ear protection during a course of fire, or commences a course of fire without them, is entitled to stop, point their handgun in a safe direction and indicate the problem to the Range Official, in which case the provisions of the previous rule will apply. Excepting, of course, if they do it on purpose: 5.4.5 A competitor who intentionally loses or displaces eye and/or ear protection during a course of fire will be disallowed the provisions of Rule 5.4.4, and will be subject to match disqualification (see Rule 10.6.3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If you stopped them the Re-shoot would be for RO interference. (8.6.4) I do not agree with stopping the competitor, what would be next? He tripped over a rock, safely with muzzle down range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I know it's not specifically covered in the rulebook, but the first line of the RO's creed spells it out for me. If I think there is a safety concern, for whatever reason, I'm going to stop the competitor and we'll sort it out after that. As a USPSA Range Officer, I shall conduct all competitions with the safety of the competitors, spectators and fellow Range Officials first and foremost in my thoughts and actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I know it's not specifically covered in the rulebook, but the first line of the RO's creed spells it out for me. If I think there is a safety concern, for whatever reason, I'm going to stop the competitor and we'll sort it out after that. As a USPSA Range Officer, I shall conduct all competitions with the safety of the competitors, spectators and fellow Range Officials first and foremost in my thoughts and actions. This. I understand where the "let them fry" people are coming from but in the end this is a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I should probably elaborate a little bit. If the shooter shakes the brass off with only a slight hesitation, then we keep going. However, if they start acting like the piece of brass is more important than the direction of their muzzle, then I'm going to do my best to remedy that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I know it's not specifically covered in the rulebook, but the first line of the RO's creed spells it out for me. If I think there is a safety concern, for whatever reason, I'm going to stop the competitor and we'll sort it out after that. As a USPSA Range Officer, I shall conduct all competitions with the safety of the competitors, spectators and fellow Range Officials first and foremost in my thoughts and actions. This. I understand where the "let them fry" people are coming from but in the end this is a game. A game with rules. If you stop a shooter for this then you better stop shooters for loose gravel, wet grass, uneven terrain, too hot, too cold, etc.. Hot brass is not a reason to stop a shooter. If they are guilty of unsafe gun handling after encountering hot brass then I stop them with a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If they're not in flames, let 'em go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm honestly torn over this. And mostly from the perspective of if the shooter stopped on their own. If woman shooter had a hot brass go into the front of her shirt and said she needed to stop I'd understand and be inclined to give a reshoot. Same for the kid that got the piece of brass stuck near his leg. If someone got a hot piece of brass inside their glasses- same thing. I guess I'd be inclined to have them stop themselves vs. me do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If you stopped them the Re-shoot would be for RO interference. (8.6.4) I do not agree with stopping the competitor, what would be next? He tripped over a rock, safely with muzzle down range? Oops. You're right. Didn't think about it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If woman shooter had a hot brass go into the front of her shirt and said she needed to stop I'd understand and be inclined to give a reshoot. Why? Because she's a woman? My nipples are sensitive too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If they're not in flames, let 'em go. Now, that's funny...and the correct answer I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If woman shooter had a hot brass go into the front of her shirt and said she needed to stop I'd understand and be inclined to give a reshoot. Why? Because she's a woman? My nipples are sensitive too! Been there, at the end of the stage, I just volunteered to retrieve the brass for her. Just trying to be a helpful RO. If people dress so as the brass can cause a problem, the problem is theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 My nipples are sensitive too! That's one for the scrapbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I had a piece of brass go down my shirt and lodge between my belt and my shorts. I burned like hell, but I finished the stage before pulling it out. I still have the mark! Don't stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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