Tear down: who is responsible for it and making it happen?

[t0066jh]

We're fortunate that we have great matches in a large metro area. Attendance is very good. Match Directors have their dedicated set-up and tear down crews. Members of the dedicated crew shoot for free....including their classifier.

It works here.

Joe

Rio Salado, Mesa, AZ

[Paul-the new guy]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

And what rule do you cite for that? Or have you had this local rule approved by NROI?

The MD gave 6 of us a DNF on the last stage at the last match... Some of us helped tear down and put away but we didn't help enough so he zero'd our last stage. We had the largest squad and finished after everyone. We tore the stage down, loaded everything on the trailer, a couple guys went and put the target stands and walls in one conex and the MD drove over to the other trailer and a couple other guys put the sticks and whatever was left into another conex. The last guys didn't get a DNF but 6 of us did. In spite of the fact we ran shooters and scored the whole match. If we get a DNF for not putting everything away it is only right for people who don't stand in the sun running shooters or keeping score to get a DNF also... I feel like I got screwed over.

[a matt]

Email MD explain what happened. He should post your scores. We did that at a club we had a big issue with that. It sucks to have to put 32 steel stage up and the only willing help was the last squad, and had several elderly men and a few ladys. 1/2 the able persons left. So we told them if they left it was was unsportsmanlike conduct. And didn't post the scores with them included untill later that week. I know the rules or most, I really don't wanna hear it. But we don't have that issue anymore.

[sperman]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

And what rule do you cite for that? Or have you had this local rule approved by NROI?

The MD gave 6 of us a DNF on the last stage at the last match... Some of us helped tear down and put away but we didn't help enough so he zero'd our last stage. We had the largest squad and finished after everyone. We tore the stage down, loaded everything on the trailer, a couple guys went and put the target stands and walls in one conex and the MD drove over to the other trailer and a couple other guys put the sticks and whatever was left into another conex. The last guys didn't get a DNF but 6 of us did. In spite of the fact we ran shooters and scored the whole match. If we get a DNF for not putting everything away it is only right for people who don't stand in the sun running shooters or keeping score to get a DNF also... I feel like I got screwed over.

I would contact your SC and AD. There is no justification for the MD to zero your score, and no excuse for that behavior.

If it were me, that MD would never get another penny from me, but I'm lucky enough to have enough matches in my area that I could scratch one off the list and still shoot as much as I wanted.

[glandry51]

It is no different than the guy who picks up other people's brass after they shoot while everyone else is taping and resetting steal. Discourteous, Yes. Are they breaking a rule, no. I try to break down at any match I attend. These guys/gals put in a lot of energy and time putting together matches and setting up COF. The least we can do is help put it up. But at the same time, case in point this past Sunday, I have asked on the last stage to leave after I shot. I also had a 3.5 hr drive home. I talked to the RO and the MD beforehand and they understood. Courtesy goes a long way.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

For those of us that don't walk real well but want to help, make sure the wagons you use to haul the stuff off the range and back to your trailers are on the stages rather than locked to a post somewhere with no keys available. I will gladly help and always have but by the end of a match, i am more concerned with getting ice paks on my knees than searching out who has the keys so we can bring your props to the trailers.

My usual now is I will pull targets and stack them. If there is no transport, i will take one trip to the trailers with as much as I can carry. Then return for my gear. If you want help, ask but also assist with whatever is needed to tear a stage down.

If I don't do enough and get a zero score, I really don't care.

[kaiserb]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

That rule applies here also.

[Sarge]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

That rule applies here also.

3.3 Applicability of Rules:

USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal

precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not

in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without

the express consent of the President of USPSA.

[GuildSF4]

It is no different than the guy who picks up other people's brass after they shoot while everyone else is taping and resetting steal. Discourteous, Yes. Are they breaking a rule, no. I try to break down at any match I attend. These guys/gals put in a lot of energy and time putting together matches and setting up COF. The least we can do is help put it up. But at the same time, case in point this past Sunday, I have asked on the last stage to leave after I shot. I also had a 3.5 hr drive home. I talked to the RO and the MD beforehand and they understood. Courtesy goes a long way.

If it is not a lost brass match, then picking up brass is one of the duties. People appreciate getting their brass back.

I appreciate people helping setup and tear down stages.

[Sarge]

It is no different than the guy who picks up other people's brass after they shoot while everyone else is taping and resetting steal. Discourteous, Yes. Are they breaking a rule, no. I try to break down at any match I attend. These guys/gals put in a lot of energy and time putting together matches and setting up COF. The least we can do is help put it up. But at the same time, case in point this past Sunday, I have asked on the last stage to leave after I shot. I also had a 3.5 hr drive home. I talked to the RO and the MD beforehand and they understood. Courtesy goes a long way.

If it is not a lost brass match, then picking up brass is one of the duties. People appreciate getting their brass back.

I appreciate people helping setup and tear down stages.

He might be talking about picking up other peoples brass and keeping it.

The funny thing is, people KNOW they should be helping. Our last match the usual hard working 3-4 guys were tearing down a stage when two other shooters showed up and commenced to picking up brass. Funny, when I showed up just by coincidence, they stopped picking up brass and started helping with tear down. I think there are people in this game that are just like people everywhere who will do as little as possible and let others do the work.

[Piney]

I've noticed that sometimes folks wont take down a stage and then carry the components a fair walk back to the storage. One of the clubs I shoot with is at an outdoor range. They built a trailer with racks for walls, etc. Most everything needed stays on the trailer. Each bay also has racks for the metal stands so its not far to carry those either. What I see now is that many folks will tear down at the last stage and stack the gear at the front of the bay. It takes much less effort to drive by, stack the gear and drive to the next bay. I guess what I'm saying is make it easy and folks will stay and help.

Its also a good idea to remind everyone at the shooter's meeting to help tear down. I'm not making excuses for those to shoot and run, but a lot of new shooters and guests may not realize that's part of the etiquette at a specific location.

I've seen some clubs have a paid crew. One made arrangements withe local high school FFA to haul gear to each bay for setup, then tear down and haul it back at the end of the match. I'd be OK with paying an extra couple of dollars if I knew the $$ was going to that type of group., (FFA, Scouts, ect). I'm not sure I'd pay towards a "commercial" group to do that.

[glandry51]

It is no different than the guy who picks up other people's brass after they shoot while everyone else is taping and resetting steal. Discourteous, Yes. Are they breaking a rule, no. I try to break down at any match I attend. These guys/gals put in a lot of energy and time putting together matches and setting up COF. The least we can do is help put it up. But at the same time, case in point this past Sunday, I have asked on the last stage to leave after I shot. I also had a 3.5 hr drive home. I talked to the RO and the MD beforehand and they understood. Courtesy goes a long way.

If it is not a lost brass match, then picking up brass is one of the duties. People appreciate getting their brass back.

I appreciate people helping setup and tear down stages.

He might be talking about picking up other peoples brass and keeping it.

The funny thing is, people KNOW they should be helping. Our last match the usual hard working 3-4 guys were tearing down a stage when two other shooters showed up and commenced to picking up brass. Funny, when I showed up just by coincidence, they stopped picking up brass and started helping with tear down. I think there are people in this game that are just like people everywhere who will do as little as possible and let others do the work.

Indeed I was talking about the guy who is picking up brass for himself and not helping others. I have seen it get heated when the R.O. or M.D. has to tell them that taping and resetting steel comes first.

[GuildSF4]

Indeed I was talking about the guy who is picking up brass for himself and not helping others. I have seen it get heated when the R.O. or M.D. has to tell them that taping and resetting steel comes first.

Picking it up for themselves sucks. Getting it picked up for the previous shooter before the next one starts, cool.

[sperman]

It really sucks when there are 4 or 5 guys trying to tear down the stage, and they have to keep stepping around the 1 or 2 brass rats. Those guys aren't helping, and by the time the stage is put away there is no brass left for the guys who were helping tear down.

[lugnut]

I had a large write up and I lost it somehow. Darn. So I'll say this:

I was at one match and a younger guy wasn't doing anything. Sat around a lot and occasionally taped. I wanted to say something bad but it wasn't my match/club.... not that that stops me often. Found out later he was recovering from stage 4 colon cancer surgery. Showed us the scars later... I felt like an ass for even being mad. That put things in perspective for me that day.

On the other hand I often see 60 and 70 year old people running around like crazy while other younger folks sit and watch. Makes me insane.

I think it's a good idea for the MD and CSO to run around reminding people to help... when then can so people like me don't blow up.

[steel1212]

It's simple you can't make people setup and tear down stages. You can repeatedly ask, beg, plead but there is really nothing you can do if they don't want to help. I've been a MD for several years and I've tried just about everything. What I've come to grips with is we will start the match when the stages are setup be that 10:30 or 12:30 makes no difference to me. Now that te local match is running Practiscore you get a bunch of people that want to download the scores before they leave....sorry not available until everything is put away.

[Collecting A's]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

And what rule do you cite for that? Or have you had this local rule approved by NROI?

The MD gave 6 of us a DNF on the last stage at the last match... Some of us helped tear down and put away but we didn't help enough so he zero'd our last stage. We had the largest squad and finished after everyone. We tore the stage down, loaded everything on the trailer, a couple guys went and put the target stands and walls in one conex and the MD drove over to the other trailer and a couple other guys put the sticks and whatever was left into another conex. The last guys didn't get a DNF but 6 of us did. In spite of the fact we ran shooters and scored the whole match. If we get a DNF for not putting everything away it is only right for people who don't stand in the sun running shooters or keeping score to get a DNF also... I feel like I got screwed over.

To follow USPSA rules, next time it will be a match DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Consider the fact that a few(3 or 4) people spent hours setting the match up for you and you can't seem to give them 5 minutes to put things away.

[sperman]

I understand your frustration, but I don't think that call is supported by USPSA rules. I know if I got a match DQ for that reason I would be filling out one of these:

http://www.uspsa.org/downloads/NROI%20Incident%20Report.pdf

[pvhendrix]

Agree 100% with Scott on the Report on RO incident. No way that it rises to the level of a DQ. Those of us that have been around (for more years than we care to remember) when the only thing we did at matches was shoot, police brass, and patch targets. At majors we only shot. The South Carolina Sectional is still ran in that format.

[PKT1106]

To follow USPSA rules, next time it will be a match DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Consider the fact that a few(3 or 4) people spent hours setting the match up for you and you can't seem to give them 5 minutes to put things away.

I live, at the very least, an hour away from the closest local match. I try to help out when I can, either with set-up or tear down. It doesn't always pan out because of obligations at home that I may need to get back to. That being said, I dare say that if I were to be given a DQ for not helping to tear down, it would give me serious pause if I were to attend another USPSA match.

[CAB33]

_{I say you guys stop complaining about getting in trouble for not helping and help... but we know that won't happen.}

[Supermoto]

_{I say you guys stop complaining about getting in trouble for not helping and help... but we know that won't happen.}

If a MD is making up rules, then there certainly is cause to complain.

[a matt]

_{I say you guys stop complaining about getting in trouble for not helping and help... but we know that won't happen.}

Agreed 100%

[Paul-the new guy]

Mistake

Edited August 5, 2013 by Paul-the new guy

[mildot1]

The way I see it is the Match Director is responsible for tear down. Period!

If you are such a person who can knowingly let that person and a few of the core group set up and tear down the stages month after month, I don't think I care to know you

Yes it is a "volunteer sport" don't volunteer and see just how long it lasts!