Tear down: who is responsible for it and making it happen?

[Speedemon45]

10.6.1

10.6.2

Unsportsmanlike Conduct : Failing to comply with any reasonable direction from a match official

[spanky]

10.6.1

10.6.2

Unsportsmanlike Conduct : Failing to comply with any reasonable direction from a match official

[remoandiris]

Actions have consequences. Shooters skips out on breakdown, MD loses their scoresheet. MD loses scoresheets, match gets a reputation of being a ripoff. No one wins.

If you have repeat offenders, talk to them. If they refuse to comply, invite them to attend matches elsewhere. Being a MD is hard enough. No need to have a few selfish shooters make it worse.

[Supermoto]

Actions have consequences. Shooters skips out on breakdown, MD loses their scoresheet. MD loses scoresheets, match gets a reputation of being a ripoff. No one wins.

If you have repeat offenders, talk to them. If they refuse to comply, invite them to attend matches elsewhere. Being a MD is hard enough. No need to have a few selfish shooters make it worse.

I would prefer a match director follow the rules and not be passive agressive and petty

Edited May 13, 2013 by Supermoto

[open17]

Heck--do what we do around here, have dedicated teardown people. Usually it's someones kids--old

enough to drive dads truck, or maybe just someone that wants a few extra bucks. We jacked

the match fees $2 several years ago, and no one has complained at all. Teardown crew pays

$2 per shooter with a $80 minimum-----not bad for a long hours work.

[remoandiris]

Actions have consequences. Shooters skips out on breakdown, MD loses their scoresheet. MD loses scoresheets, match gets a reputation of being a ripoff. No one wins.

If you have repeat offenders, talk to them. If they refuse to comply, invite them to attend matches elsewhere. Being a MD is hard enough. No need to have a few selfish shooters make it worse.

I would prefer a match director follow the rules and not be passive agressive and petty

Well Mike, whenever you see a MD being passive aggressive and petty, talk to them about it. Maybe all they need is an eyeopener.

[Nik Habicht]

If everyone helps out, even extravagant stages get broken down and put away in less than 15 minutes.

It helps to have a knowledgeable person directing people where to put specific items..."a place for everything and everything in it's place" kinda thing. That also helps setup next time.

And a screw gun/what ever tools might be needed for disassembly....

Ideally a member of the match staff, or someone who sets up stages regularly is at the pit as the squad is finishing, with tools, and direction. I've found that most folks will be happy to stay and help, if they're not left standing for ten minutes, while no one shows up to approve/direct teardown...

[calvinc78]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

And what rule do you cite for that? Or have you had this local rule approved by NROI?

I just shoot there... I don't make nor enforce the rules. That is just what's said during the shooters meetings.

[Ron Ankeny]

Gosh, I haven't helped to tear down at the last 3-4 matches that I have shot and no one said a word. Maybe it's because I set-up, do the stats, and I have a knee injury. When I shoot away from home folks take pity on crippled people and let me slide.

Seriously, be polite, ask for help when/where help is needed, and don't stress yourself out over the shooter/scooter. It took me 12 years to lighten up and I feel a lot better.

[Poppa Bear]

I know of a couple of guys who show up, set their chair up on the first stage and sit until it is time for them to shoot. After shooting they sit back down and have others bring them their brass and any other thing they need. Then they walk over to the next stage as others assist in getting their gear to the next bay. Many of you who have been around this for a while already know the rest of the story. These are the guys with 3 digit USPSA numbers. These are the guys who started all these clubs 25 to 30 years ago. These are the guys who put their time in plus some, and we are proud that they are still staying as active as they can. I hope i still have the desire and ability 30 years from now when I am also well into the Super Senior category.

I am glad to say that we have very few people who do not help either during set up or during tear-down. The willingness of the out of town people to do their part shows us that even our visitors have a good work ethic.

[spanky]

Our club rule is if u don't help tear down then they will zero all ur stages

And what rule do you cite for that? Or have you had this local rule approved by NROI?

I just shoot there... I don't make nor enforce the rules. That is just what's said during the shooters meetings.

My apologies. I interpreted "Our club..." to mean that you had some doing in the matter. The question remains, however. It's just directed at the wrong person.

[Graham Smith]

There is nothing that I know of that will force people to stay and help tear down, but most of the time enough people will so that it's not a problem. However, I have been at matches where people seem to vanish into thin air so that one other person and I am the only two on a stage.

What I cannot abide is brass scroungers busy picking up brass on a stage that I'm trying to tear down.

[EkuJustice]

I think the easier the stages are to break down the more likely people are to stay and help. If your walls are the snow fence walls in stands with a zip tie holding the the walls to each other together along with some barrels etc your more likely to have it torn down and at the bay mouth for the trailer as its fast and the only tools needed are a knife which most any man carries. It it's heavy wood walls with everything screwed together solid where you need screw guns to remove everything then you will have a lot of targets removed barrels moved but those walls will remain standing. For whoever has the trailer.

[John Heiter]

At our club's USPSA matches, we ask that everyone help with setup the morning of the match and tear down immediately following the match. Setup starts at 7:00am so shooters driving in from out of town are forgiven if they can't make it in time for setup. If someone needs to leave before tear down, we ask that they let the MD know. If someone consistently doesn't help with either setup or tear down, the MD reminds them that it's a volunteer sport and it's not fair to those that do help for someone else to skip out on everything. If someone is unable to assist with the more physical setup or tear down activiites due to health reasons,they just need to let the MD know as there is always something that they can do to help out that is within their abilities.

Other competition groups at our range have gone to a fee system. If you're there for setup you pay X, if not, you pay Y. It seems to be working but I'm not sure if it's a good long term solution. The morale of the workers seems to have gone up because they see the non-workers being penalized but I'm not sure if that will persist if they see that some of the non-workers are happy to just pay the additional fee and not have to work ever.

[mike l m]

I know of a couple of guys who show up, set their chair up on the first stage and sit until it is time for them to shoot. After shooting they sit back down and have others bring them their brass and any other thing they need. Then they walk over to the next stage as others assist in getting their gear to the next bay. Many of you who have been around this for a while already know the rest of the story. These are the guys with 3 digit USPSA numbers. These are the guys who started all these clubs 25 to 30 years ago. These are the guys who put their time in plus some, and we are proud that they are still staying as active as they can. I hope i still have the desire and ability 30 years from now when I am also well into the Super Senior category.



I am glad to say that we have very few people who do not help either during set up or during tear-down. The willingness of the out of town people to do their part shows us that even our visitors have a good work ethic.

I have been shooting Uspsa when it was IPSC. Been doing this for 27-28 years, nobody brings me my brass, nor do I sit on my ass in a chair before the first stage and just move from stage to stage not helping. The older shooters need to set the example by helping where they can and do what they can, not just sit on your ass til it is time to shoot.
Mike Merkler
USPSA TY 11297
IDPA A03930

[Poppa Bear]

If they have the physical ability they do. If they no longer have that ability we do what we can to assist them because they have more than put in their time and we are happy that they still try.

[EkuJustice]

Shooters who don't help reset paste etc are few and far between. I know of a couple of people who your more likely to see Bigfoot riding a unicorn with a sack full of 22lr than to see them paste or reset a target. Easiest thing to do for that is when it is their turn to shoot everyone sit while they do their walk through and let them paste their own targets. They learn pretty fast.

[Jim Norman]

Wow!

OK, here is how it works. at least at our local clubs. The majority of the people stay and help tear down the stage they shot last. Two of our clubs have stage trailers, everything goes back on the trailers, no waiting for the stand trailer or the wall trailer. Shooters that travel a long distance and are 'guests' of the range as in non-regulars we don't expect to stay around, they can have hours to drive to get home. The locals or regulars know the drill, they tear down their stage and on occasion more than one if we have more stages than squads (rare). We ASK or rather state clearly in teh match briefing that we expect this to happen. We do not rely on thought transference to get the idea across, we tell the shooters this is what is expected and the vast majority do it. At the end as we are putting the last crip-crap away we are usually down to the few, but this is part of running a match. We build our match the day of the match and tear it down the same day, we don't have the luxury of tying up the range for additional days.

Would we 'punish' chronic offenders? not is so many words, but we do the squadding, we run the match, ve haf vays ov dealink mit dis kind of behafur!.

Really asking is the biggest this that we do. We ask people to design stages, to build stages, to run squads, to tear the match down and put it away. They do it for the same reason we do; they love the sport and realize if 'We' don't do it, there won't be a match.

By the way, we generally find that even the distance people will hag out the few minutes it takes to pull down a stage.

[a matt]

Our last group will tear down that stage.

Edited, cause of assumption...

Edited May 23, 2013 by a matt

[Jim Norman]

I don't want to jump ugly, but what rule allows you to zero a shooter for not tearing down? You might rather find more support for not allowing the shooter to shot again at your range. I would be very very cautious about this, you just might want to go to their club someday.

Be an inviter, not a divider. Ask for help, you don't ask you are not likely to receive.

Jim

[JimmyZip]

There is one match fee for members and one for non-members. Those that help set-up and tear-down who are members shoot for free, those who are not shoot at the discounted members normal price.

I have found that this way there are always enough to help efficiently, and yet not so many as to hurt match finances much if any.

And if you design and set up a stage, you shoot free.

Those that leave I have no gripe with really. I shoot for free, and they pay. I get to see how to set up and design stages, and loads of free once fired after the match. If you want to leave early, by all means be my guest!

Many reasons to stay, and even more of my liking for you to leave early. I want your brass. If you don't want to stay and help you probably would not be much help anyway.

JZ

[Flexmoney]

Really asking is the biggest .... We ask people to design stages, to build stages, to run squads, to tear the match down and put it away. They do it for the same reason we do; they love the sport and realize if 'We' don't do it, there won't be a match.

+1

This is THE key.

[CHA-LEE]

Here in Colorado every club runs with the same basic mode of operation. The stage you end on is what you tear down before you pack up and leave. The only time this becomes an issue is if there is a low attendance match and there is not a squad on every single stage. In those situations we simply ask in the shooters meeting to assist in tearing down additional stages. Match staff can also offset this issue by sending shooters who have finished their last stage over to another berm to start the tear down process while the rest of the squad is finishing the last stage. This process usually works out the best on the low attendance matches.

Surprisingly we don't have a congenital issue with shooters skipping out on the tear down duties. Sure there are one off situations where someone has to leave early, or some shooters are physically unable to help but those are very rare occurrences. Its amazing how responsive people are when you treat them with respect and lead by example.

[Shadow]

Here in Colorado every club runs with the same basic mode of operation. The stage you end on is what you tear down before you pack up and leave. The only time this becomes an issue is if there is a low attendance match and there is not a squad on every single stage. In those situations we simply ask in the shooters meeting to assist in tearing down additional stages. Match staff can also offset this issue by sending shooters who have finished their last stage over to another berm to start the tear down process while the rest of the squad is finishing the last stage. This process usually works out the best on the low attendance matches.

Surprisingly we don't have a congenital issue with shooters skipping out on the tear down duties. Sure there are one off situations where someone has to leave early, or some shooters are physically unable to help but those are very rare occurrences. Its amazing how responsive people are when you treat them with respect and lead by example.

This is the same way its done at NC clubs.

[Jim Norman]

We feel that allowing a certain number of shooters to shoot for free is counter-productive and can have the effect of creating a clique or an 'Us-Them' situation. We do have a club discount, a USPSA discount and a non-member rate. Joining in the fun is heartily encouraged. Not everyone will design a stage, not everyone will help build, but very few will run off without helping to tear down their stage. No one is paid at our club. The Match Directors and ROs are just like everyone else.

For the record, the Mid-Atlantic Section has the following Fee Schedule:

Match fee $25

USPSA members get a $5 discount

Host CLubs can offer an additional $5 discount

Juniors shoot for $5

Husband and WIfe pay the lessor of $35 or if both are members of teh host club, what ever the Host club rate is.

New shooters are afforded the oppurtuinty to join USPSA at the match by paying $40 for an annual membership and then shooting the match for 'free'.

We payout to Division and Class winners

Division Winner: $ 30.00 (5 in division)
Class Winner: $ 20.00 (3 shooters in class)
Second Place: $ 12.00 (8 shooters in class)
Third Place: $ 8.00 (15 shooters in class)

What more can you ask for?