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Tacti-cartels.

dirtypool40

By dirtypool40
in What I Hate

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dirtypool40 Sees Sights Lift

dirtypool40

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This was originally a response to a post about how Jerry Mikulek barely won the IDPA NATS because he was not allowed to run and how movement is bad, only for gamers. It kinda honked me off, and I wrote this long response, but felt like I used up too much space when they were sorta talking revolver stuff.

I haven't ranted about the "great failure of IDPA to remain fun or objective" for a while, and yup, this set me off.

Basics: I started in IDPA. I shot nothing but for over two years. I got tired of the dogma and BS so I left and actually learned to shoot. At our club we actually had this goofball "tush hog"walking us through stages with a blue gun, telling us "Ÿur gonna do this, and then yur gonna go here and do this...." This was a guy who had gotten himself thrown out of USPSA matches for flagrant safety violations (like a 360 pirouette with a live pistol), but he had found a place where dictators could have their fun too.

By the time I left IDPA for USPSA I was winning club matches and my division at state. I was shooting the classifier in right around 100 with all the different autos, basically an IDPA Master plus or minus a second on a good or bad day.

I had heard from every gun rag how you better not even show up at a USPSA match without your track shoes and a $3k gun. How they could not shoot, only run and hose. I was scared of them and their equipment, but went anyway, determined to show them what a good tactician I was.

Know what happened? I got my axx kicked. I went from a local tough guy to a little fish lost in the sea of "B"shooters. Yes, I qual'd as a "B"right out of the box, a feat I am still proud of. But I could not think for myself, I could not hit anything outside 10-15y. Know what else happened? I accepted that they just plain out shot me, I took the bit between my teeth and learned to shoot instead of calling them gamers.

It took a while but I have worked on it and EARNED a USPSA Master rating. As an ironic aside I shoot an IDPA legal gun in USPSA's LIMITED class and do quite well for myself. But, that comes up later in our rant....

Anyway, here's my rant.......

Reset Rant mode to AUTO.....

Sorry, but for my two cents you (and IDPA) have it bass ackwards.

Try to hear me out and not just hit me over the head with your little green copy of Mien Kampf. (sorry just teasing).

IF IDPA could take a hint, they would have better stage design that allowed flexibility and different approaches to a given problem based on your skill level and equipment. USPSA FINALLY learned this lesson, but about that time IDPA was formed so USPSA is forever scorned by those "tactically in the know".

Try this with a timer before you dismiss it. Shoot a stage box to box style ala IDPA or circa 1990 USPSA. They really are the same, telling you exactly where you shoot what. FOOT SPEED is rewarded.

Now shoot the same stage WITHOUT the boxes (or IDPA mandates of little yellow feet where you must stand to be "TACTICAL"), shoot it as you move slowly from A to B, engaging targets as they become visible. You can LEARN to shoot smoother, faster and good grief, with more creativity and less dogma. This style of shooting rewards shooting skill, knolwedge of your skill and smoothness. SPRINTING from 5y target to 5y target only rewards foot speed, and knowledge of a poorly thought out rulebook.

This year, I drew up several and ran one stage at a major IDPA match . I used vision barriers and then simple stage instructions: Start here. End up there. You may shoot any target on the move or from cover. You MAY NOT shoot standing still in the open. This blew their minds, they were so used to relying on dogma and just outrunning oponents. The more advanced shootes breathed a long sigh of relief saying they had waited quietly for 6 years for this type of design.

The best part was they were self adjusting. I don't want some brand newbie shooting their shiny new G27 backing around props at their first match, BUT I also don't want to beat them over the head with the LGB for not being able to. If the local SWAT instructor wants to shoot backing away from the first position towards cover who am I tell him he ain't tactical?

IDPA made a big mistake when they set the "hit factor"so low and made it the same for every stage. At the extremely close range IDPA is shot, a penalty of .25 seconds per point down is more realistic for the middle of the road shooter.

I know I don't need to mention that IDPA is a game. I will mention that I started there and swallowed a lot of HQ's dogmatic BS for several years. I know they are trying to protect their little pond against the big fish in USPSA, and their courses from becoming some mystery "armed track meet" I keep reading about, but in refusing to evolve and THINK about course design, they have lost the fun. When I was at FLETC for the instructor course last year, we called this type of dogma "training scar". Get used to doing something dumb, just because someone said to, and you will when the flag goes up, and it may get you hurt.

I cannot run fast. I can however move fast enough to shoot on the move, and I practice it. I know when and when not to try this. I do not like "dance steps" or low level shooters MANDATING how I MUST shoot a stage.

I like to think IDPA was started with the best of intentions, a place for carry guns and shorter more realistic scenarios. But it brought out the Mall Ninjas, and those who need to be Tactically sheik, even if they can't shoot. There is a definite cartel, of trainers and wannabe's at the helm, and both root their mythical tuffness in dogma. Name this technique (that was around long before you thought to steal it) and you'll go down in history....all hail!!!

Now it's as though to say it needs improving is to say that the Emporer has no clothes. If you want to dress up like a Tacti-billy and scream at the targets fine, but don't treat me like @#$ because I don't. And don't discount my performance as a gamer when I beat you wearing what I actually wear everyday, with a gun I actually carry every day, and a ......smile? By the way, it is actually customary when a shooter exhibits a stellar performance to say something akin to "hey nice run"or "good job" instead of "He beat me, now how can I add to his score afterwards?".

Go ahead, threat scan before you eat your happy meal, you really blend in with that photo vest and scowl at Micky D's. I'm the guy smiling in the corner, you can't pick out from the crowd, who shoots better and doesn't need HakaRauch's approval.

I bumped into a local tacti-god at the SHOT show last year, he was "holding court" with some other locals who had stopped to worship his tuffness. Wasn't his booth, just a random grouping at a display. Anyway, as I walk up to say hello, I overhear him say how getting your "M"card, hell even your "GM" card in USPSA is all about equipment. He is gloating..."I could hand any one of you one o them race guns, and you could go right out and get an A card. Hell I could make MASTER right now!". Yeah, this guy is a MARKSMAN who would have trouble getting the bullets in the mag the right way if Hakarauch didn't have an article with pictures on the subject.

Come on out buddy. Try it before you chew on your foot anymore.

I wish I still enjoyed IDPA, and I hope I can in the future, when it grows up.

DOGMA and Tacti-Cartels BAD. Flexibility and skill good.

Rant mode to STAND BY.

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LGator Looks for Range

LGator

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. I used to think I was super tactical with my badass training. Then I started shooting competively. I initially discounted my horrible scores since I was "doing everything tactically correct." Then I saw a fellow IDPA shooter clean a stage (zero points down) and beat everyone in the match by a good 30 seconds while doing everything tactically correct. At that point I realized equipement didn't mean squat. Skill won the match. It wasnt' until then that I could go from novice to marksmen. Marksmen to master. I love IDPA the way it is, for the most part. I guess Colby needs to shoot at every local match to teach people this. (not that everyone would learn it) You get out of it what you want. Excuses do not make a winner in sport shooting or in life.

"losers go home and talk about how they tried. Winners go home and nail the prom queen."-SC, The Rock

-LG

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MikeFoley Sees Sights

MikeFoley

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Dirtypool40, you have several good points in this rant. I too spent my first years of action shooting working my axx off at a club level IDPA match. After many thankless hours and low round counts, getting penalties for doing what was obviously my own form of problem solving, I decided to shoot a drive-to USPSA match instead. Two years later I am shooting 4 USPSA matches per month and progressing more as a shooter, and yes, smiling all the way.

With that said, I still like the original idea, and the equipment including divisions of IDPA. I simply just don't take part because USPSA is more fun. I hope to never be in a gunfight, but would hope to be up against a slow, methodical, 10 rounder, tactician from IDPA if one occured.

Any shooting is shooting training, but no gunsport is situational training. The world is 3d, it is dark, it is dynamic, the bad guys lay down a hail of bullets back at you, they have you surrounded sometimes, and there is no 180, muzzle limits stake, time to put that mag in your pocket, etc. By the way, what is left of that mag you changed for no reason (if it was full) is of no use to the bad guy unless he can get it and it is the exact same caliber and size of your gun. What are the chances?

I understand the Vietnamese used or own dung against us as poison, but they did not dig it up with someone shooting at them from 5 yards. If you want to make it more realistic, then let's be realistic.

I love to 3-gun. If IDPA ever starts 3gun, I'll try it, but not with low-cap mags if that is how it will be played. I wonder what affect the AWB sunset will have on IDPA, and USPSA Production and Limited 10 divisions.

What about the classifier, yes THE classifier. I like the pages of classifiers that test all the skills we use, not the same old 90 rounds from the same two positions used over and over. Talk about grandbaggers, if anyone wanted to progress to Master in IDPA, they should learn to shoot USPSA, then practice the IDPA classifier until it is perfect.

Sorry to rant after your rant. I guess some of the fellows from the other sport are going to be somewhat upset. There are good guys and gals shooting many different sports, and we are all supporters of the right to keep and bear arms, but we can differ on our sports and their "real world" applications, as long as we stand together on election day. What else would we have to debate otherwise?

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carinab Sees Target

carinab

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I heard that the reason Steve Broom and Taran Butler didn't win their class was because of a few questionable penalties....like twitching in between the standy by command and the buzzer (because of massive and loud vendor demo fire in the next bay). You can't tell from the results but I know one of them had nine seconds in penalties.

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dirtypool40 Sees Sights Lift

dirtypool40

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BigDave et al......Anyone remember the old SNL skit with John Belushi? "You're blocking Vito..." :rolleyes: You guys got me going AGAIN!!

Thanks guys. I guess it was all pent up after being quiet for a year. I PM'd the guy who wrote the thread that got me started, apoligizing if I missed his meaning and that I perhaps had a hair trigger on this issue. He edited it, and I don't think he is part of the problem I was talking about.

I am not talking about those that CAN shoot and want to play with their carry guns from carry holsters. I was and AM one of them. I am talking about the elitists who seek status in everything they do AT THE EXPEPNSE OF OTHERS. In IDPA's case it was the gun store commandos who can't shoot a lick, but sit "tactically crouched" behind a counter at the local gunstore all day quoting Hakarauch and treating new shooters like crap.

I really did start IDPA with stars in my eyes. I drew up stages; I set up, surprises, moving threat signals between shooters, Drop turners with two targets and only one threat, unknown jammed gun recovery to finish a stage, ranges and arrays that tried to simulate actual gunfights. But I really got burned out by the people that refused to have fun, and only seemed to enjoy ensuring others couldn't have fun either.

I have no more patience for that.

When I rant like this, there's always someone on here that comes on and says it ain't so, that the world IS flat like Uncle Bill says. Well you can't change my expereince. Even after I left IDPA for IPSC I used to try to take new shooters out to IDPA as a first match. With close ranges and lower round counts it should be a good "little league" intro for rookies. But it became WAY too click-ish. If you didn't have the right photo vest you were not worth a hello. Let me tell you, winning HOA at our states "Summer Games" with my REAL carry gun in sandals and an Aloha shirt, pissed off those wearing OD canvas and a scowl. B)

The equipment divisions were a good rough draft, but they need one more or one less. We have major / minor for SA, but a guy shooting a Sig 245 gets to shoot against a G34? Yeah even playing field guys. And no calibers at all in CDP except .45 acp, because you know nothing else makes 165 pf. (As an aside, try even finding factory .40 S&W ammo that does NOT make 165 from a 5" gun. I only found two so far.)

"IPSC GM's are only gamers". Hmmmm, then why do the top "real world" shooters go to them when they don't play games? Simple; technique and skill.The top USPSA shootes are open minded and continue to evolve. Their techinique is a result of learning what actually works under pressure, not in theory but in the crucible of competition. I did a course with Jerry Barnhart recently. It was the first one he has given for civilians in over two years because he is so busy training "the other side of the house" as he put it.

My point is that accountants from Omaha can make their homage to some jesuit school of tactical dogma and go home feeling all warm and fuzzy. They can wear their new "Thunder Site" T-shirt to the local IDPA match and spout; "this guy said I need ghost ring, express night sights of three different colors", "that guy says beavertails are for fags", "weaver kicks ass 'cuz it just looks tough". I have buddies who are SF CQB instructors, DEA snipers / TAC team leaders and Sheriif's SWAT sniper and instructors. I consider them all much more experienced in the "real world" than I have any interest in being. All of them shoot USPSA to improve their skills. None of them can stand IDPA.

At MY local level IDPA was ruined by people as much as by short sighted edicts from the cartel. At the national level IDPA was doomed to this with attitude from the onset, listing the "great failure of IPSC" as their introduction. Ideas like no fault lines and not allowing the rule book to evolve except every three years doomed IDPA to the realm of petty tyrants and subjectivity. I have actually had a local "mall ninja" :ph34r: call a foot fault on me for standing on a spray painted line. 'Cause looking for spray paint on the ground to tell me where to stand is tactical.

As I proof read this, I see some folks commenting on the subjective nature of IDPA scoring. Here's a neat observation; A known shooter of high level walks to the line at a match. He burns the stage to the ground. The differences? At USPSA the shooters waiting say "watch this guy, he kicks ass" at IDPA it's more of a "watch this guy, we'll find something". After the fact USPSA shooters say "damn, nice run" the IDPA guys stand up and in chorus whine for penalties until his score is more in line with something they are capable of.

Nice job guys, You RUINED a great idea. Enjoy your little pond, don't forget to threat scan the port o potty..

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dirtypool40 Sees Sights Lift

dirtypool40

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PistolJim,

don't give up. It took me almost two years of solid USPSA matches before I won HOA LIM.

Looking back my advice would be to perfectly zero your gun so you are completely confident where the bullet is going, and practice shooting at a small point like a black paster. From different ranges and at different presentations, back to 35 yards at least. A lot of this is about confidence in execution, and when you know you can shoot a partial at 35 y leaning around a barricade, that 15 y open target looks huge, even on the move.

Practice a "blast off" reload more than a standing one. (Reload as you blast out of a position. If you train to stand still and do it, you will when the beep goes off.).

Get accuracy, get speed in your gun handling (draw and reload) and watch yourself on tape.

At whatever level you are, you will be embarrassed the first time you see yourself with how much time you are wasting. I know I am every time I look back a year, I go "How the hell did I compete wasting that much time?".

now the rest of you.....don't drift my rant!!! :angry: I can drift it. Do as I say, not as I do, I will hit you with my little green...oh wait I don't shoot that sport anymore. :unsure:

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