Nationals format

[driver8M3]

i'm curious, how did those of you that went to nationals like the 5-day format? good? bad? too long? just right?

[Nik Habicht]

Almost Perfect. Having us shoot half days for five days, is definitely less exhausting than shooting full days --- and at the time introduces a pressure all its own: the need to maintain focus over five days. That said, having to shoot mornings, when your systems aren't fully operational before Noon does affect performance in a negative way. It's also cool because you get time to watch supersquads on the other rotation shoot whole stages, and you get the opportunity to show up early or stay late to just hang out with friends or acquaintances.

Having shot last year's Factory Gun I was a bit worried about dilution in the divisions this year, but that proved not to be a factor --- except perhaps in Lim-10. I was surprised by how cool it was to have everyone at the big show --- it was definitely an atmosphere of more energy and excitement. I think I'd prefer this to split handgun Nats......

[Flexmoney]

Ditto.

[TriggerT]

While I didn't shoot the nationals, I like the idea of one big tournament. I know that is against what a lot of other shooters feel, but just my $0.02. I think the half day format would be nice, but if they had the shoot in an area that had more to offer for vacation type activities, it would be easier to sell the idea to my wife.

[Trenavd]

The week long format was pretty good, however at times I felt like we could have easily shot the match with the half day format in four days instead of five. My one complaint is how Sat was handled, by having the awards on Sat. instead of Fri. evening it pushed the prize table out until late Sat evening and forced an additional nights stay in Quincy. I enjoy my time there however having arrived the Sat. evening before the prospect of spending another night in a motel there was not very high on my list.

[spd522]

We didn't care for it much. I agree it allowed for time to watch others or visit. But it did involve a lot of down time and there is little to do or see in the region. And the Saturday format wasted another whole day.

This match easily could have been done in 4 days (or less) with the shootoff Friday AM and awards right after that. Everyone could have vacated Mosquitoville by Friday afternoon.

[BDH]

i'm curious, how did those of you that went to nationals like the 5-day format?  good? bad? too long? just right?

Of course from the staff perspective, the format doesn't really matter because we are there all day anyway. That said, I heard FAR more positive comments about the format (for the reasons already listed), than negative comments. Most people seemed to enjoy the downtime.

My one complaint is how Sat was handled, by having the awards on Sat. instead of Fri. evening it pushed the prize table out until late Sat evening and forced an additional nights stay in Quincy.

I 'believe' the reason the awards were scheduled for Saturday night, was because they were allowing some additional time for unseen things like weather. In other words, with potentially 600 competitors, and unpredictable Barry weather, I think there was a little flex in the schedule to allow us to finish up Saturday morning if necessary. Also, even though we finished as scheduled, the final results were posted at 6:40 PM (and then we have to wait an hour), so it would have been too late to work in the awards, and the prize table....

[Chriss Grube]

It wasn't a bad format but I would prefer to shoot it in 3-4 days instead of 5 and the 2 extra days needed for registration and prizes. It would have been real easy to cut out a day or two. You started at 8 and were done by 1030. The RO's did a great job of getting everybody in and out fast. They didn't post the scores on Fri. night like they usually do. That was BS. I said the hell with the prize table and left at 0400 for home. There's no reason to dick around and have the prize table that late on the following day. It screws up flight times and really sucks for those of us that drove. Shoot the match, post the scores and have the prize table that night. They had the scores done by 1940, they could have done the table at 2030. It would make it simple for everybody to attend get a nights sleep and be gone in the morning. Only reason I can see for doing it the way they do is to keep people around just for the shootoff. The shooting 4 stages a day was a little harder because you just get warmed up and going and its over. The worst was the 24 layoffs. What the hell do you do in Quincy for 24 hours that doesn't involve large amounts off boredom or alcohol?

[SmittyFL]

I thought the format was OK. I agree with about all the comments listed above. There was a lot of down time, fortunately I drink, so we had fun.

I understand there could have been a lot more shooters and the weather could have sucked and extra time was needed.

I also think a day or two could have been cut out. We flew in Sunday and got to the range at about 4:30 and they wouldn't let us register because they stopped at 4:00. I didn't fly in on Sat. because I was trying to cut out a day of expense. Seven nights in a hotel is bad enough.

It's easy to say after the match how much wasted time there was, but I don't think it could be scheduled much different with all the unknowns that could have popped up. They couldn't have predicted we would be done two hours earlier than scheduled each day.

24 stages is a lot to shoot. I'd rather not be pressed than always be in a hurry. But I believe they could have cut out at least one day.

All in all it was a great match and I don't have any real complaints.

[ErikW]

I'm with Chriss Grubbe. Four stages isn't enough in a day. We shot eight stages per day at the 2000 LimNats. Waiting around for half a day was no good.

We flew in Saturday because we knew we couldn't make the registration deadline by flying in Sunday, even on the early flight. At least that gave us a lot of time to examine the stages Sunday. I expected the prize table to follow the shoot-offs and booked my flight for Saturday evening. If I had known there was a whole day of down-time before the awards/prizes, I would have done the same thing.

It seems there was some pessimistic scheduling going on, as if they expected the stages to be blown down in the middle of the week.

[shred]

I think 4 was a bit light on the stages/day. It was a lot like shooting 5 small club matches in a row.

It was nice to have big blocks of time off (far, far better than 1-on, 1-off), But if you shot in the afternoon one day, you were in the morning the next-- not a lot of time to get to the hotel, clean up, go eat, come back, clean everything and be ready and sparkling by 6:45.

It also meant that you couldn't see people on other squads that were on your schedule (like the Open SS was this year)

The shootoff/awards/prizes situation was a little tedious-- we skipped the shootoffs, then had to go amuse ourselves in Quincy for 6 hours-- it would have been cool to do the shootoffs Friday afternoon when everybody was still at the range.

[Wakal]

I like the half-day format a LOT more than the old 'shoot one, sit one" schedule of yore. I was very happy to see the half day format again!

However, the goat rope Saturday "4pm announced, 4:25pm actual" five (5!) hours after the shootoff trophy hand-out fiasco was a stellar example of evil in action. From the general discussion, two scenarios presented themselves with equal validity. Either there was a sweetheart deal promised to the nice Barry Civic Protection Agency ("oh, sure, 600 people will stay one extra day just because we can't read a clock and efficiently put together a schedule"), or it was a concerted effort to get shooters fed up with the inability of the Folks In Charge to read a clock and efficiently put together a schedule and thus leave early, thereby saving prizes for another match or the RO table.

Could be just flat incompetence instead of outright evil, but hey, I'm an optimist and never ascribe to incompetence what can be ascribed to evil

Alex

[Sterling White]

I liked the format. If something were to be changed then I would like to see 5 stages for 5 days.

[Chuck Anderson]

I think the format worked very well. The stages were a bit light each day and we got out early. However, I think some of that would have changed had the additional 60 shooters that were registered but skipped because of the hurricanes came. Or if the match had sold out, another 40 shooters. There was only one day when we got out in 2 1/2 hours. The other days were 3-4. I would imagine that had this not been the nicest weather that I've ever seen there would be less people complaining about only shooting for a couple hours a day. If memory serves there was another National event held recently in Barry where the temperature was a bit on the warm side.

My complaints for this match have nothing to do with the shooting schedule though. The awards ceremony should have been held on Friday night. I was rather suprised to see the shootoffs take place before the awards. The shootoffs went fine and should have been on Saturday as they were. However, why the heck was there a built in delay of four hours till awards? The original letter that I had said prize distribution to immediately follow the shootoff. When we were at the range on Saturday I asked several RO's and not a one had any idea whether the prizes were after the awards or the shootoff's. The location where the prize tables were placed was horrible. This is the responsibility of whoever selected the hotel. There is no excuse for choosing this type of location. USPSA sponsors are very generous and Colleen Voigt does an incredible job of wranging them, however, who saw how much or what they donated? One of the nice things about having a table open to view is everyone can see just how much loot really is piled up. Mike V. said that there was $90,000.00 in prizes but who can visualize that.

Oh, and one last thing, post the overalls somewhere. It will make the prizes go a lot quicker if people have some idea of where they are at. I would have had not idea were it not for my shooting buddies laptop and the USPSA results page.

[Sestock]

Liked the format, it could be done in 4 days without any serious weather.

[Jon Merricks]

I did not like the format. None of the reason are really shooting related but they effected my shooting. I doubt I'll go back if it remains a five day format, unless I bring the whole tribe with me.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I liked it, but then I'm selfish. I let me get photos and article material all week long. As for the shooting being a bit light, the schedule allows for a number of possibilities:

More shooting. It would have been possible to expand to more stages, given the number of shooters on hand.

More shooters. Conversely, the squads could have been expanded if needed.

Less time: With the squads we had, and the stages as set, it probably could have been done in four days.

As for being in Quincy, there will always be friction between those who want to shoot, and those who want to go to Disneyland after they shoot.

I think "Goat-f*#k" describes the shootoff-awards-prizes schedule. However, had the staff done as some suggest, awards and prizes Friday night, we'd be hearing from shooters complaining "I wasn't going to wait until two in the morning to get in the building and pick up my prize, so I just went home."

[Wakal]

Patrick,

I think they (and I know I) meant that last year's "trophies Friday night, prize table IMMEDIATELY AFTER the shootoff on Saturday" would have been better than the goat-rope that we had at this year's match.

Run the prize table at the "Slick and Weasel Hall" there at PASA, like it was done back in the day. Shootoffs were done at 1100; start the table at 1200 right there at the range. It would have been vastly superior to the enforced "You vill spend da money in da town" five hour wait

Or, what the heck, use the Vender tent as there were ONLY TWO (2) VENDORS who even bothered to hang around Saturday. Or vendors who hung around until the afternoon squad was done shooting every day, come to think of it, but that is fodder for another hate rant.

Alex

[cjl32]

The stages were great, the RO's were top notch, the weather was perfect, but I didn't enjoy the 1/2 day format at all. The entire match felt sooooooo drawn out, like a 2 or 3 day match stretched out for 5 days. It's kind of hard to get in a groove when you only shoot 80 rounds a day or when you get to wait 26+ hours for the next stage after the days you shoot in the morning. While I'm chunking rocks, I also wish we could have been shooting Saturday and Sunday. It felt like those day were wasted somehow. I fired my last shot at around 11:00am on Friday and finally left Quincy at 7:00pm on Saturday.

Before anyone thinks I've got one way vision, I understand a "fudge factor" needs to be built in. I've been to Quincy when the stages had to be rebuilt because of storms and I realize that many of the competitors, including me, were travelling on Saturday and Sunday. I do think we could have shot at least one extra stage per day and started on Sunday morning.

On the positive, the match ran smooth as silk without a single bump that I heard about and we were able to drink enough beer to fill a swimming pool!

The prize table distribution was another story. Reminded me of a bunch of monkeys attempting copulation with football bats.

[speedshooter]

I liked the format although I wish I hadn't been on the same schedule as the limited super squad, I would have liked to watch them shoot. My complaint would also be with the the 4-5 hour break between shoot offs and awards/prizes and the disorganization at the prize tables. I don't know if it would be possible logistically, but it would have been fun if on Saturday afternoon they let people go and re-shoot any stages they wanted just for fun while waiting for awards. I would have enjoyed another crack at some of the ones I screwed up.

[dpeters8445]

What a great match. This was the most fun I ever had while standing on two feet. Having said that, this match could have been shot easily in 3 1/2 days. I did not mind spending the week, but I would of liked to shoot a couple of more stages per day. We had enough time that we could of easily shot 29 stages if not 34.

Thank you PASA for putting on a great match.

Doug

[Jim Norman]

I liked the five half day format. We were not burned out by standing around in the heat as we were the last couple years. Anyone else remember Barry at 100 degrees and 100% humidity? We shot three afternoons and two mornings. Admittedly it was a bit more like 5 club matches. That means we got to watch the stages get shot and plan abit (not that it did a lot of good) on how we'd shoot a stage.

We had more vendors here than in the last couple years. This I think due to the fact that they only had to come out once, not two or three times. We had plenty of time to shop. As to other attractions, I finally had time to do a little tourist stuff in the area. There really are a few things to see.

If we are taking a poll, I'd like to see one large National, shoot what you want, take your best shot as opposed to three separate matches. I would continue the 5-day format with the shoot-offs on Saturday AM. The only thing I'd have done would have been to move the awards to follow the shoot-offs sooner and the prize distribution as soon after as possible. That way we could have left Quincy at say 6PM instead of 9:30.

Best kept secret of the match? Pittsfield and the other surrounding towns that have great restaurants.

The stages were generally good, a few were great and a few were not up to National Standards. The RO staff was generally qualified and pleasant. The Golf carts were a great addition and not the problem I thought that they might be although the half day format makes them less of a necessity than shooting all day.

One negative was the closing of the sight in range due to someone moving the targets to the .22 range. Maybe a large sign that indicated that the rifle range was the sight in range would have forestalled that that occurrence.

Thanks to all that worked the match.

Jim Norman

[Mistral404]

This was my first Nationals.

I arrived on Saturday so I could register on Sunday. I left following Sunday. That was nine days of being away from home/work. It was a bit much for such little shooting and much more downtime.

I did not like the format at all. The match could have been shot in 3-3.5 days even with 24 stages. The match should not be a five day format. There was just too much down time. Quincy is nice but quite boring. Why should we hang around the town with nothing to do? The need for 24 stages seem to be driven by justifying a five day format. Some of the stages should have been elimenated.

Again, even with 24 stages the match could have been shot in 3.5 days. Personally I think it should not have been 24 stages but 18-20 stages. Some of the stages were a little silly. Not to say I did not enjoy them but they seemed needless.

I would suggest a split format like previous years. A competitor could actually shoot two separate divisions if they like.

The ROs were pretty good, professional, and courteous. All but 1 or 2 were very accomodating when it came to scoring. A couple of ROs were outstanding in their patience on explaining how they came to their conclusions. It was very beneficial.

The dark house was fun but there are some questions generated by it. It think it is wrong to have USPSA supply equipment to make sure eveyone has a standard item. USPSA does not do it for any other piece of equipment needed by the shooter. Is USPSA going to supply guns next time? I realize it may seem like a foolish suggestion but USPSA supplying equipment is a bad precedent.

The Awards and Prize table should not have been on Saturday evening. That was a very very bad decision. It caused needless delays. The way it started also was poorly done. Finally, someone had the good sense to make everyone move out of the hallway into the main room. The method of announcing names was obviously a poor choice. An address system should have been used. Additionally, I would suggest that people on have 60 seconds to make up their mind. That would sure make the process faster. Moving the FFL into a separate room would have been a good idea also.

I heard a lot of gumbling about the lack of complete guns on the tables. It seemed that STI and SV supplied alot of frames and slides which was nice. Is there a problem with getting more manufacturers in supporting our nationals. Our we not supporting our core vendors enough? It is nice that Blackhawk sponsors some USPSA officials but are they a core supplier to most of our shooters (none-3-gun)

If SV was a big financial contributor, why were they not readily displayed in the match book.

It just seemed to me that the match was setup for some political/special interests and not to maximize the benefit of the participants/shooters.

I would like to see a match with fewer stages shot over a shorter time frame with the ability to shoot in more than one division. I was disappointed in the lack of Jr participation. The management of the awards and prize table needs to be improved.

Let me reiterate: I enjoyed the match. I had a great time and really learned a lot. There is room for improvement and I hope there is improvement.

[tewlman]

i thought i would have a ton of free time with the half day format, but was i wrong. On the days we started shooting in the afternoon, we came early to watch others shoot and on the days we started in the am we stayed late spending money in the vendor area and talking to others. like others have said, we could have easily shot five stages a day. All in all it was a good format and a great time, maybe next year my gun will run, i don't know why it had to wait for the nats to take a dump on me.

my only gripe, like others was Saturday! I hope the USPSA staff takes note of this thread. What a cluster %^&* at the Holiday Inn. Ray Hirst yelling out names over a crowded room of anxiuos shooters was the most unprofessional display i have ever seen at a match. i'm sure the staff of the Holiday Inn and other guests were appalled at the pathetic display. Why is it we can have a top rate 5 day match, but can't find a better way to work the prize table. We should have skipped the prize table and went home early, but instead we left immediately after and ended up getting home around 5am.

oh, one last thing! if you're gonna wear a kilt on the range, PLEASE don't bend over in front of a hole squad. I'm still having nightmare after seeing more than i ever cared to of Troy Mcmanus.

[IPSCDRL]

oh, one last thing! if you're gonna wear a kilt on the range, PLEASE don't bend over in front of a hole squad. I'm still having nightmare after seeing more than i ever cared to of Troy Mcmanus.

Was that a "whole" squad prior to the incident?