BCG is there really a difference?

[kimberacp]

Is there really a difference between a MSpec and a brand name such as Spikes, RRA, DDs???

would like to get one but some of the prices on GBroker are out of the roof for a brand name BCG. am thinking just getting a MSpec.

this is for a bull 20" standard gas setup.

thanks

[Joe4d]

Ive been gone awhile, so pardon my ignorance, What the heck is a BCG ?

[Religious Shooter]

Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) for an AR15.

[Joe4d]

thanks

[Lead-Head]

I have a variety of mil spec BCGs. Cannot tell one from another as far as function.

I also have a jp LM carrier, but I do not always use it in competitions. I like it, but never felt it completely necessary overa mil spec carrier.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Lead-Head

[co-exprs]

Truth is most BCGs on the market are made to milspec. The carrier isn't high wear item. The bolt takes most of the abuse. Right now i'd get what I can. If you're worried about longevity, pick up a spare bolt some time when they are available as a back up.

[warpspeed]

Is there really a difference between a MSpec and a brand name such as Spikes, RRA, DDs???

unless it is a coated BCG, the Spikes, RRA & DD ones are mil spec.

[promod1385]

I am confused... the BCG's you talk about are all mil spec, most people would consider them to be "name brand mil spec" and thus a cut above average.

Bear in mind the prices on AR parts are way out of line right now. BCG's are one of those major components that seem to be most effected by the current post election madness and inflated prices.

I have owned three AR's in my life and all of them have had Bravo Company BCG's these are mil spec components construted out of a certain mil spec steel. I am confident that these bolts have been the reason all of my "parts" guns have been very reliable.

[Seth Long]

For function, i don't think the carrier is that big a deal. A good bolt would give you added longevity and peace of mind, but obviously a milspec bolts will last a long time.

As for coated BCG's, they are the way to go, namely NiB coating. I have a NiB coated BCG, and that thing is a breeze to clean. I keep it wet all the time, and when it needs cleaned i just pull it out and wipe it off. A quick brush on the bolt face and its good as new. Unless forced to, or something better comes out, i will be sticking with NiB coated bolts/carriers.

[ffgats]

just a follow-up question, as per advice to keep a spare bolt, can I use any brand or type, will it match to my existing carrier. thanks

[Seth Long]

just a follow-up question, as per advice to keep a spare bolt, can I use any brand or type, will it match to my existing carrier. thanks

Yep, i'd suggest JP enhanced bolt or a Rainier Arms Bolt. Rainier being much cheaper and NiB coated.

[ltdmstr]

Mil-spec is a general term and just because something is labeled as mil-spec doesn't mean it's good or bad quality or anything else. It all depends on the company. When you pay the extra money for a name brand, you're usually paying for consistency in terms of material, manufacturing and quality control. Some companies make "mil-spec" parts and do practically no quality control, so a lot of crap gets out to market. Others test everything. You pay for that. Considering the cost difference, I would pay more for something I know is going to be right and meets my expectations. I have a Spikes NiB BCG on order from Brownells, and they had no ETA even before things went crazy. So I bought one on gunbroker and paid a serious premium to get it. But I know Spikes is consistent quality and I was anxious to get the rifle together so it was worth it.

[latewatch]

The main thing with the bolt carrier is to make sure that the carrier key is properly staked.

[promod1385]

The main thing with the bolt carrier is to make sure that the carrier key is properly staked.

Let me ask this: "Why is this important".

Your post is an opinion and many people would disagree with you, staking is not essential. Lots of guys dont want staked carrier key screws for reasons that have been covered here on BEnos before.

[EkuJustice]

The main thing is you don't want the carrier ley loosening and causing the gun to go single shot. I stake mine and use std weight carrier and a rifle buffer as well as a non adj gas block as I want a gun that's simple and runs over tweaking it to the max.

[GorillaTactical]

The main thing with the bolt carrier is to make sure that the carrier key is properly staked.

Let me ask this: "Why is this important".

Your post is an opinion and many people would disagree with you, staking is not essential. Lots of guys dont want staked carrier key screws for reasons that have been covered here on BEnos before.

I don't know that I've ever seen anyone advocate specifically "not staking"...including on this forum (post links as I'd be interested is seeing the logic used)...of course many have suggested it isn't essential, and correctly so, but then again, neither is getting your car brakes replaced...maybe you can get away with it for a long time, but eventually, something might go horribly wrong. I've seen the effects of a poorly secured/staked key, and I don't want to see it again.

In an area where there is little difference from one brand to another in terms of quality, proper staking can be one of the more important differences between carriers.

Edited December 27, 2012 by GorillaTactical

[Alaskapopo]

Not staking is stupid. I have seen guns go down because they were not staked properly. Not staking is ok if you like running an AR like a straight pull bolt action. Why is staking important? Simple because without it eventually the bolts in the carrier key will work loose and your rifle will stop functioning. Locktight will not hold up here due to the high temperatures in this area of the gun.

Pat

Edited December 27, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[theblacknight]

Mil-spec is a general term and just because something is labeled as mil-spec doesn't mean it's good or bad quality or anything else. It all depends on the company. When you pay the extra money for a name brand, you're usually paying for consistency in terms of material, manufacturing and quality control. Some companies make "mil-spec" parts and do practically no quality control, so a lot of crap gets out to market. Others test everything. You pay for that. Considering the cost difference, I would pay more for something I know is going to be right and meets my expectations. I have a Spikes NiB BCG on order from Brownells, and they had no ETA even before things went crazy. So I bought one on gunbroker and paid a serious premium to get it. But I know Spikes is consistent quality and I was anxious to get the rifle together so it was worth it.

False. Mil spec is not a general term, it's simply that it's so loosly thrown around that people begin to think its just a buzzword, like tactical.

MIL-C-70559 is the military specification for the M4, which incorporates Colt’s technical data package (“TDP”). The M4 TDP consists of a series of prints and geometries (dimensions), a system of know-how, operation sheets, quality inspection methods and access to the master list of specifications and standards that comply with the requirements in Colt’s contract with the U.S. military. The TDP outlines the manufacturing process, materials, tolerances, assembly, finishes, proof testing and dimensions needed to manufacture the weapon. The military specifications (“milspecs”) and military standards (“milstds”) into which Colt’s TDP has incorporated consist of more than two hundred extremely rigorous standards covering inspection, tolerances, targeting, endurance and interchangeability of parts.

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/09/27/what-is-the-tdp/

The BCG has to be the correct steel, correct coating, has to be HPT and MPI tested. The carrier itself has to be auto profile etc.

• Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel
  
• HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof)
  
• MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
  
• Shot Peened Bolt
  
• Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO)
  
• Chrome Lined Gas Key
  
• Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
  
• Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners
  
• Key Staked Per Mil-Spec
  
• Tool Steel Extractor
  
• BCM Extractor Spring
  
• Black Extractor Insert
  
• Mil-Spec Crane O-Ring
  

I dont think anyone sells a inspec bolt but not inspec carrier.

[ltdmstr]

You missed the point entirely. I understand what mil-spec means, I used to buy stuff for the US govt and used all kinds of specs. So I'm very familiar with what it means. The point I was making is that if you buy a certain brand of BCG that's labeled as mil-spec, you have no way of knowing for sure if it actually is mil-spec unless you have the tools and means to test it, which I'm sure 99% do not. Otherwise, you're going on the reputation of the company. There are a lot of parts out there labeled mil-spec that are not.

Edited December 27, 2012 by ltdmstr

[Alaskapopo]

You missed the point entirely. I understand what mil-spec means, I used to buy stuff for the US govt and used all kinds of specs. So I'm very familiar with what it means. The point I was making is that if you buy a certain brand of BCG that's labeled as mil-spec, you have no way of knowing for sure if it actually is mil-spec unless you have the tools and means to test it, which I'm sure 99% do not. Otherwise, you're going on the reputation of the company. There are a lot of parts out there labeled mil-spec that are not.

I would have to disagree. Companies can get in trouble for false advertising.

[ShooterSteve]

Check out Youngs BCGs, Great work. I use one of their lightweight NM carriers, and it is fantastic. It is also so easy to clean. Just wipe it down and it is instantly clean. Very smooth, I'm glad I went that way when I did my build.

[PursuitSS]

The main thing with the bolt carrier is to make sure that the carrier key is properly staked.

Let me ask this: "Why is this important".

Your post is an opinion and many people would disagree with you, staking is not essential. Lots of guys dont want staked carrier key screws for reasons that have been covered here on BEnos before.

If your AR is a range toy, staking is not required, if it goes into harms way...YES IT'S REQUIRED!!!!

I have had gas keys come loose and turn the rifle into a straight pull manually operated gun!

First I use NEW beyond Grade 8 Torx Plus screws, then I clean the screw holes in the carrier with acetone. Then I coat the screws with Loctite 2620 (650 degrees rated)(your standard hardware store 271 Loctite WILL FAIL!), then I torque the screws to 40 inch pounds. THEN I stake the screws with my Brownells staking tool.

[ltdmstr]

You missed the point entirely. I understand what mil-spec means, I used to buy stuff for the US govt and used all kinds of specs. So I'm very familiar with what it means. The point I was making is that if you buy a certain brand of BCG that's labeled as mil-spec, you have no way of knowing for sure if it actually is mil-spec unless you have the tools and means to test it, which I'm sure 99% do not. Otherwise, you're going on the reputation of the company. There are a lot of parts out there labeled mil-spec that are not.

I would have to disagree. Companies can get in trouble for false advertising.

Are you serious? Do you have any idea how much fake Grade 8 and higher class hardware is in the defense supply chain? Not to mention counterfeit electronics, and all kinds of other stuff. The AR parts the military gets come from a limited number of reputable sources. The consumer market is a different story, and there's plenty of crap labeled mil-spec that is anything but. The 99% refers to end users, not the companies making the stuff. They have the means and ability to test, but many do not because it saves them time and money.

[Alaskapopo]

You missed the point entirely. I understand what mil-spec means, I used to buy stuff for the US govt and used all kinds of specs. So I'm very familiar with what it means. The point I was making is that if you buy a certain brand of BCG that's labeled as mil-spec, you have no way of knowing for sure if it actually is mil-spec unless you have the tools and means to test it, which I'm sure 99% do not. Otherwise, you're going on the reputation of the company. There are a lot of parts out there labeled mil-spec that are not.

I would have to disagree. Companies can get in trouble for false advertising.

Are you serious? Do you have any idea how much fake Grade 8 and higher class hardware is in the defense supply chain? Not to mention counterfeit electronics, and all kinds of other stuff. The AR parts the military gets come from a limited number of reputable sources. The consumer market is a different story, and there's plenty of crap labeled mil-spec that is anything but. The 99% refers to end users, not the companies making the stuff. They have the means and ability to test, but many do not because it saves them time and money.

Yes I am serious. Spikes is about the only company where people were really challenging their claims to mil spec bolts etc. Yes there is fake stuff out there but that is what you get when you buy gun stuff on Ebay. Buy from a reputable company and you can generally trust what your getting. (ie Colt, Noveske, JP, Larue, BCM, Daniel Defense etc)

Staking is a must have if you want your gun to be reliable in the long haul rather its for life and death or competition.

Pat

Edited December 27, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[ltdmstr]

Buy from a reputable company and you can generally trust what your getting. (ie Colt, Noveske, JP, Larue, BCM, Daniel Defense etc)

This is exactly the point I was making.