vluc Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Shot a match recently with a shooter who brags about being in the top 15 on the USPSA web page in his classification/division and how he doesn't want to move up into the next class (. He shot the match rather well, ahead of me on some stages, behind me on others. Now this is the 4th or 5th time I've shot with him, listening to this ongoing drivel. However, on the classifier stage, I got a chance to run him. Can't remember the number, just remember it had 3 strings of fire from 2 boxes, 4 paper to engage. At any rate, his first two strings were really good. Great time, nice hits. So I comment to him..."great run, you'll move up on this one". Last string, buzzer goes off...wow, where did those mike's come from..... I patiently recorded the time and hits, and inside was freakin furious....I enjoyed my stay at the top of the "C" heap, won some things, etc, but moved gladly into "B" class where I get spanked each week as I move up, just like I did when I went from D to C. I don't understand those that feel the need to game, to have their fragile little ego's stroked by behaving in such a way. Do we reward/encourage such behavior by having a system that is solely dependant on the classifiers themselves? Seems we could develop a system that incorporates not only the classifier but the overall match percentage as well. That way, those folks who do not shoot major matches still are held accountable for their overall performance. Unfortunately in my brief three years of shooting I've encountered enough sandgaggers and paper masters to last me a lifetime. I know this has been commented on before, this one just got under my skin and hasn't come out yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Sandbaggers aren't cool. I thought that there was a way to bring such behaviour to the attention of the section coordinator and/or area director so that the person could be moved up to the correct class, but I don't see anything in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Well, then you have the problem of averaging a 49% with uspsa not enterting anything over 75%. That sounds like the classifier at Clairton PA this wknd. If so it was cm99-17. I shot it at about 78% of HHF. So C class I remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Try not to get wrapped around the axle on this one. Proof is in the pudding when the shooter shoots at a major match that has gm's/m's setting the pace. It would be a little bit humbling to have a 75% classification and shoot a 45% at an area match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 unfortunately there isn't much one can do about sandbaggers. when ever prizes or money is involved the baggers will come out. bowling is the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Shoot every stage to the best of your ability, and the the chips fall where they may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 That is why emphasis should always be on overall finish and not class placing. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 This is why I only worry about my own shooting (and my friends if they need me for some reason). I try not to worry too much about what other people do unless I think they are getting a grossly unfair advantage over the rest of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Before I get started here, there are a couple of threads on this subject already...might do a search.. Your situation is why I advocate everyone shooting Heads Up...no classes...it eliminates all that kind of thing...I understand how doing that might hurt the sport and why it is not feasible, but I still like No Classes.. The way to handle Sandbaggers is to make your way to the top of the heap as quickly as you can and just be sure you Kick his Ass at every match...let him know that you hate sandbaggers, that you consider him one and if he'll watch you closely, you will show him what it takes to be a real shooter....then Kick his Ass. As far as Paper Masters goes....some of us, can't move like we did when we were 25 yrs old....when you find a guy who can really shoot on stand and shoot stages but not on long field courses, just understand that it might be the situation I mentioned and not sandbagging... My .02 worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 "Shoot every stage to the best of your ability, and the the chips fall where they may." This is surely the FAIREST way to deal with it. And how the hell can these jerks LIVE with themselves, anyway??!! Fooling yourself doesn't feel good!... don't they KNOW that yet...? Jerks. I take the risk at EVERY match that I might out-class myself and miss a trophy (Lewis System), but the point is to IMPROVE and keep moving UP in rank. And, for cryin' out loud, the match results are posted on the bulletin board so everyone knows how well (or badly) you did anyway. No sandbagging necessary. And, as one of our shooters said a couple of years ago, "I don't need the trophy, I just want the ranking!" I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 That is why emphasis should always be on overall finish and not class placing. Your situation is why I advocate everyone shooting Heads Up...no classes...it eliminates all that kind of thing... "I don't need the trophy, I just want the ranking!" Hooah! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 hehe...thanks for letting me vent. It irritates me, but doesn't affect my shooting...I'm my stiffest competition. I was proud to move up, just as proud to get spanked when I'm not on my game...the way it should be. But good god Gertie...don't go bragging about bagging, if you do it, keep it to yourself. As for paper masters, my apologies to those who can't move much. My comment is/was not meant to disparge what they have achieved...geared to those who practice a handful of classifiers just to move up, but never appear anywhere near the top at the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Well, then you have the problem of averaging a 49% with uspsa not enterting anything over 75%.That sounds like the classifier at Clairton PA this wknd. If so it was cm99-17. I shot it at about 78% of HHF. So C class I remain. Call USPSA, they will include a higher classifier in your score, at your request, if you feel it accurately represents your skill...... Suddenly started practicing, got a new gun that works, never able to shoot a classifer before without lots of errors, all are examples of how you could suddenly go that much higher in percentage, and be legitimate.... its up to you if you want the abnormally higher score included - just a call away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I want to add my own rant here to your. I know a local shooter who is helping another local junior. The kid is probably a mid to high c class shooter. His "coach" wont let him shoot classifiers because he wants him to stay in D class and win everything. When there was a recent all classifier match this "coach" made him enter as open and not limited so that the classifiers wouldnt count. I dont understand how anyone could have this mentality. I want to move up more than anything. I would rather be 10th Master than first A. I think everythign should be heads up scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Is this where I brag about being a MM in ESP in IDPA? I wouldn't mind eliminating classes either, but if we do we should also eliminate divisions. Just shoot what you brought to the best of your ability and the rest will sort itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Rhino I'm with you..... run what you brung.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 i dont see the point of sandbagging C class, wow your a professional C class shooter...not happening. to some, winning C class is fun....to me, it sounds like they need to move up if they win C at a major match. and sandbagging a major match wont get you a win. A shooting friend said there would be sanbaggers in every class...i said i needed to hurry and get to GM then... I shoot every stage to my full ability..as im not proud to be a C class shooter...its not bad, but i know i can shoot better.... i have a goal to make B class before the end of this year. A or M in two years....not too much time to be sandbagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 harmongreer That is the whole point of shooting headsup....who wants to be E class Natl Champ... Get tough or die..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Life is competitive. Life is full of risks. Life is about trying to win... and there's NOTHING WRONG WITH WINNING. But I'd rather be on the bottom of A-Class that at the top of B-Class (or C-Class) for too long. Moving up (or really trying to)--however gradually--surely must be what it's about for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 vluc, Any chance that you mentioning that he was about to move up (right before he was to shoot) might have shaken him up a bit? Perhaps he got a case of classifieritis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 vluc,Any chance that you mentioning that he was about to move up (right before he was to shoot) might have shaken him up a bit? Perhaps he got a case of classifieritis? I was thinking the same thing. When I am RO'ing I make it a point to not interfere with the shooters train of thought. If I had been the shooter I would have been pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 No divisions, no classes, run what you brung, shades of 1974. Start here, shoot that-a-way, go like hell. There has never been a level playing field in any fight I have ever been in. When do we start? Be safe, have fun...shoot to win geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Call USPSA, they will include a higher classifier in your score, at your request, if you feel it accurately represents your skill...... Go ahead but when you see yourself performing at a "lower than expected level" at a major match don't start whining ! I wouldn't recommend self sacrifice. RE: the "sandbagger" hate. Do a little research and see how that person performed (overall percentage) at a major match when the pool of shooters is much broader. If the "sandbagger" is performing at a level higher than current classification then maybe the Section or Area Director should recommend a bump in class! Wonder if that's ever happened? ... wait - that would take balls J/K..lol.! Bottom Line: Its hard as hell to shoot your classification percentage at a major without: 1) having that level of experience 2) the wheels to get the job done, and 3) having dedicated the time and devotion to training. The higher you climb the tougher the dog! $.002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I have taken the option to not attend any major matches untill I recieve my B card. The only exceptions are for the local ranges that are holding a "major" match this year. I shoot them to support the sport at the area level. I can't practice enough right now to support a B card, but most times I place out of the C class. I didn't feel good about going to the area 8 match with a C card. If I had a good day, then it wouldn't be right, if I flubbed a couple of stages then no one would have noticed. I wish that you could volunteer for a class higher than you are ranked. I know that you can get "bumped up" in an area match, but that still doesn't make it right. Sorry-kind of the opposite of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Back years ago(pre93 or so). I was off from 93 to June 04. Before my long vacation from ipsc it was run what you brung. Then some people started complaining about the cost of race guns. So you got limited class. Then I was not in it for L10 and production so I don't know how that mess got started. It seems life was alot simpler back then. Now just to gain a competitive edge in any class its shoot 1000+ rds a week, dry fire for hours on end, change your life, and change your job so that you have free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now