Neil Beverley Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Inspired by a line from "Cops have a sense of humour" in the Humour forum I remembered an exchange I witnessed at a UK handgun match. This kinda drops into the "US versus THEM" category. But with a twist. To set the scene a little take one really obnoxious competitor (truly he was, always), at best gamey but would err towards blatant cheating given the chance. Add a member of the range crew, experienced but not well known, tough but fair. Range crew: "1 Charlie, 1 Mike" Obnoxious competitor: "There are 2 shots through that hole" Range crew: "You pulled the shot. I saw it go high left. I saw it impact in the berm over there (indicating)" Obnoxious competitor: "Rubbish! I couldn't possibly miss at this distance. There are definitely 2 through there" Range crew: "No way! But if it makes you feel better I'll examine the hole again. Nope! Definitely only one. I'm certain." Obnoxious competitor: "I'm telling you there are two through there. The gun hardly moved. Besides, the benefit of doubt goes to the shooter." Range crew: "Sorry, but I call it as a Mike!" Obnoxious competitor: "F*ck off! I tell you there are 2 through there. You don't know what you're doing!" Range crew: "John, I say it's a Mike but do you want a final decision by the CRO?" Obnoxious (now snarling) competitor: "Yeah! Definitely!" Range crew: "I am the CRO. 1 Charlie, 1 Mike." Obnoxious (but knows when to give up) competitor: "Oh OK then. I had to try." He smiled, signed the score sheet and moved on to be obnovious to someone else. I witnessed the whole exchange. You had to be there to fully appreciate it. The CRO was totally professional and but nevertheless baited a hook, cast it out and caught his fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 A ©RO with a humor that kept his cool - buy the guy a beer from me if you see him on that competitors account. A perfect example of how to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Good to hear that the shooter knew when to shut up. Was the "FO" said somewhat in good humor? If a shooter that I didn't know, or who was really pissed off, used that kind of attitude, and then pushed it even just a little further, he might not be finishing the rest of the day. I think there are alot of shooters who will push for "The Perfect Double" but they need to know when to give it up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 This is why I always carry a "magnifying glass card" with my scoring overlays. We have one guy in Hong Kong who never has a miss - if you can't see two holes, it must be a perfect double. At one match for which he registered, we prepared for him by setting up a "forensics" lab, with a huge microscope, bright lights and various other implements, and I announced "the lab" during the shooter's meeting. Of course everybody immediately understood (and giggled) and looked at Mr. Never Miss, who went 17 shades of red. If I recall correctly, he had 3 misses at that match, not one of which was challenged. God I love this sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 we prepared for him by setting up a "forensics" lab, with a huge microscope, bright lights and various other implements TRUE GENIUS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Having experianced two perfect doubles this weekend... The comment was, "if you are that good, spread them apart a bit!" Mikes accepted with a smile since I in truth know I was probably shooting a bit faster than I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Not one word, Mr. Warren, not one single word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 we prepared for him by setting up a "forensics" lab, with a huge microscope, bright lights and various other implements TRUE GENIUS! We'll try this solution in the Dutch competition/classifiers as well. Then there's no need to switch targets anymore and have them examined by the CRO or the MD. Saves time. Henny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Neil, While I am sure that you do not want to 'name' the shooter involved, I think I may have met him. In fact, I am sure I have.... it was at the 2002 Nationals in Bend. RO: Alpha, Mike Shooter: No way. That has to be a double. CRO: Alpha, Mike Shooter: But I shot THREE times at that target. It must be a double. RM: Alpha, Mike Shooter: Well, you can't blame me for trying. Nuff said... (and NOT picking on shooters for asking for overlays etc., which everyone SHOULD ask for if you doubt the call)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 He smiled, signed the score sheet and moved on to be obnovious to someone else. Neil, I think you invented a new word--I like it. OBNOVIOUS: An obnoxious competitor obviously trying to put one over on the RO. Sort of like an "oblivion". Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 In texas our perfect double's alway's count 5 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 In texas our perfect double's alway's count 5 points. Benny, you da man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think I've mentioned this before, but if I have a shooter that pushes this kind of thing to much, I always get out the overlay for a no shoot hit too. Might be a double! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think I've mentioned this before, but if I have a shooter that pushes this kind of thing to much, I always get out the overlay for a no shoot hit too. Might be a double!Al Al, just remember that under the new rules, they can ONLY get two!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 "Oh OK then. I had to try." Just how wrong is that at how many different levels.....I run into shit like this every day in my proffesion. It never fails to make me want to go 300#Gorilla on some DMFer! Well, maybe thats to mean - just go Postal on em. What ever happened to the honesty is the best policy rather that the OJ mentality of If you can't prove it - it ain't so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I feel like it's the RO's job to call 'em as they see 'em, and if the shooter disagrees, it's their job to ask for a second opinion. No harm, no foul. but.. "I gotta try" when the shooter doesn't believe his shots are there is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 In texas our perfect double's alway's count 5 points. Benny, Nice one! However, that's mighty generous. I would award the perfect double minus 5 points. Al, just remember that under the new rules, they can ONLY get two!!! Brian, And you're being too tough! They can only get a maximum of 2 hits. It's not compulsory to score only 2 hits, you could score just one!!! Good to hear that the shooter knew when to shut up. Was the "FO" said somewhat in good humor? If a shooter that I didn't know, or who was really pissed off, used that kind of attitude, and then pushed it even just a little further, he might not be finishing the rest of the day. I think there are alot of shooters who will push for "The Perfect Double" but they need to know when to give it up as well. TriggerT, Actually the competitor in question was nearly always borderline. I've significantly abbreviated the full exchange of words. If I'm honest I believe the final words spoken by the CRO were "I am the CRO. 1 Charlie, 1 Mike. Now F*ck off." Under the full circumstances it was a reasonable close to the arguments and the competitor knew he was trying it on but didn't know this particular CRO. The "Unsportsmanlike Behaviour" rule could have been written with this guy in mind and was ofted muted but never used. Despite all the very many comments we see written in these forums I believe there is a very marked reluctance to DQ competitors under this rule, even the ones that deserve it. In 17 years of ROing I have never seen it used. Ever! Troy, "Obnovious" is one of the kinder words that could be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I believe you should ask if you feel like you didn't miss. I don't believe in a perfect double. If it is perfect, it cannot be identified, period. At a recent match I shot in, one of the competitors argued a miss. After getting all the attention the CRO would allow, I heard him comment as he walked back, "If I can't have fun shooting, I may as well have fun with scoring." Didn't sit too well with me, but what can you say??? dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I've shot the occasional almost perfect double with one of my Glocks, especially on close targets. Almost perfect = needing an overlay to discover that the hole is in fact oval. I've been known to ask for an overlay --- when I've believed that I hit the target twice. Sometimes the ROs groan --- but usually they're surprised when after overlaying the target and upholding their original call, I simply say "O.K., thank you for double checking that," and it ends the controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Ok, hearing it discussed, what would happen with the overlay vs. obliquely presented targets that cause a non-round hole? Sometimes holes on a lay-down target can be kind of large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Kind of the opposite,,,,I shot bang and clang a couple months back. I'm a C/B shooter,,,,ran it in 3.3 seconds in limited,,,which I was tickled to death with. When I looked up at the paper target,,,I thought,,,,Oh crap, I pulled a shot. I then heard....the scoring,,,,,,4 steel,,,,2 alpha. Huh??? Looked around surprised at the RO,,,,he said he just happened to look up at the paper when I shot it and he said he saw the hole,,,get a little bigger. It wasn't quite a perfect double,,,but darn close. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Dimaculangan Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 its too bad the "its my birthday today" excuse doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Huh??? Looked around surprised at the RO,,,,he said he just happened to look up at the paper when I shot it and he said he saw the hole,,,get a little bigger. It wasn't quite a perfect double,,,but darn close. H4444 Dang! I wish the RO on stage 13 of the 2000 nationals has spread his focus far enough to have seen ME do that. Seems a shame to make Arnie come all the way over just to call A-M...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 see signature below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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