Learning curve?

[michael_aos]

Not really sure how to phrase this. I've shot 4 USPSA matches, but only 2 since I became a USPSA member so I'm not classified.

I shoot Limited-10 with a basically "stock" Springfield "Loaded" 1911 in .40 S&W.

Of the 4 matches (Jan, March, May, July), my overall percentage has been high-20's to 30.81% percent. That tends to place me awfully close to the bottom (#39 of 43, for example). I think another was #74 of 102 overall.

I'd feel a whole lot better if I were shooting more like 39-40%

How long did it take you for that much improvement (from 30% to 40%)? Were you EVER down in the 26%-30% range?

I guess I was expecting to progress more quickly in the beginning, then plateau.

No, I'm not expecting to WIN anything. I'd just feel a lot better in the middle of the pack instead of bringing up the rear.

Mike

[Loves2Shoot]

I was there, and it sucks to come in at the bottom of the heap. Read BE's book first off, then you won't waste time on things that are unimportant. Don't worry about your percentage, spend your time watching your sights and learning how to do the fundamentals of shooting and calling your shots. Keep your focus on each shot you shoot. If you do that you will shorten your learning curve. It takes a lot of perfect practice to become a good shooter, so put in your time dry firing, and when you hit the range, watch every shot. Don't get pulled into the speed trap. As you learn to watch your sights you will learn to see faster, and the faster you see the faster you will shoot A's. My 2 cents worth.

[rtr]

Michael, I shot the PPPS match on Sun as well. I've been shooting their matches for a year and a half or so, I've gone from finishing near the bottom to roughly in the middle, I shoot production (soon to go open) FWIW.

Don't worry so much about where you finish or your percentage. Do worry about becoming a better shooter. Read brian's book, read Steve Anderson's book. Talk to the good shooters at the matches, watch how they approach the stages, ask them how they are going to approach a stage before they shoot it. Off the top of my head guys like Lizard Waltzer, Gene Ragulsky, Tom Freeman, Stuart Wong, Dean Williams, Rod Goodall. Get Matt Burkett's DVDs. Do a lot of dryfire, when you do livefire concentrate on simple drills like bill drills and plate racks, compare your times to the times posted here, it will give you an idea of where you are, it will help you see what you need to see. Also we are having steel matches on Wednesday nights at PWSA starting around 5:30 or so, the match last week was a real eye opener for me, taught me more in 2 hours or so of shooting than most full matches. Also there is a fun one stage social type match on Thursday nights out at Dragonman's, shooting starts at 5, it will help you too.

Lastly, and firstly don't worry about where you finish, have fun shooting, have fun with the people at the matches. PM me if you want to.

[short_round]

I'd feel a whole lot better if I were shooting more like 39-40%

I think what you are feeling is natural. I felt it too at first. I am still very impatient in many ways and sometimes you can see it in my shooting. Anyway, give yourself a break right now. You are still at the point to where you need to baseline your skills. There is plenty of time to really beat yourself up later once you know how you are actually progressing and what you need to work on.

Get Steve Anderson's book, your timer, a pen, your gun, and some ammo. Head out to the range and start recording your current skill level. Then practice and track your progress. I know this sounds cliche, but if you take care of your shooting where you finish in the match will take care of itself.

[uscbigdawg]

The one of the most true statements I've heard from 'the pros' is with regard to taking classes.

[Paraphrasing] "My best customers are A & B shooters. You tell them, that you can shave a couple of tenths here and there in a weekend and they're all over it. You tell a C & D shooter that you can shave seconds off of their runs and they think it costs too much."

I agree with short_round completely. He's made some huge leaps over the few months that I've seen him shoot and know that he's on his way.

So, above what others have suggested, once you're comfortable with the 'game' part of our sport, consider taking classes from some of the pros like Matt Burkett, Todd Jarrett and Mike Voigt (just to name a few).

Rich

[old shooter]

Mike,

In addition to all of the other great tips, I would like to add one of mine. Identify one aspect of you shooting that is causing you to lose the most time, or lose the most points. You can do this on your own, or ask for feedback from one of the other shooters watching you. They will help, and a second set of eyes can see things you never noticed. Then work especially hard on that aspect of your shooting until you have it mastered as best you think you can right now. Don't neglect the rest of your practice, but each time you put an aspect of your shooting in the "got it" box, it leaves fewer in the "need to get it" box. And one more thing, don't wory about your placement, set goals for yourself. Try to shoot great points, and compare how you finished compared to your last placement. Good luck.

Mike

[dv8]

Been there, and haven't got very far from there yet. But since I am here for the fun of it, it is important for me to remember that I don't really have to beat anyone except maybe myself. Now if I do manage to remeber this throughout a match, I tend to get a lot better scores.

Just my humble 0.02

[Matthew_Mink]

I'm pretty sure I zeroed my first USPSA match. I'm real sure I zeroed the next two or three. My accuracy was nonexistant, but man was I fast. Someone told me to slow down to do better, so I did. That was good for 20-30% right there. I languished there for about a year. Then one day I sat down and read the rulebook, especially the part about scoring. The lightbulb went off and I shot up to 50% or so. From then on, it was all about the techniques, and performing.

[Ron Ankeny]

I remember my first match well. I didn't understand the scoring system very well. I had about 99.999 per cent A zone hits and still came in at the bottom.

[michael_aos]

Any thoughts as far as limiting myself to just one-gun? Or just shooting more?

I've been shooting IDPA with a Springfield Mil-Spec .38 Super (ESP), IPSC with that Springfield "Loaded" in .40 S&W (Limited-10). I tend to shoot a Browning Hi-Power 9mm just plinking during the week and for the Wednesday-night steel matches. Springfield Micro-Compact .45 ACP for CCW.

I carry a Glock 34 w/Surefire X200 camping but I don't really shoot it a "lot". Then a Remington 1100CM, Armalite M15A4 and Remington 700P for 3-gun.

I'm sort of all-over-the-place.

"Beware the man with one gun" -- perhaps "Don't worry about the guy with too many guns" is the opposite?

Spent about 90 minutes (and ~400rds) on the plate-rack yesterday. Had some good strings, but not at all consistant.

I was starting to wonder if the Hi-Power accuracy went-away when the barrel got hot but my wife had no-problem dropping plates when I was missing.

[rhino]

Any thoughts as far as limiting myself to just one-gun? Or just shooting more?

You'd probably be better off to stick with one for a while. Most people make the best progress when they devote their training and competition time to one gun or style of gun.

You could shoot that .40 Springfield in IDPA ESP and USPSA/IPSC Limited 10 (or Limited or Open).

Dry firing on a consistent, regular basis is your friend. I don't do it, and that's probably why I don't make good progress.

Spent about 90 minutes (and ~400rds) on the plate-rack yesterday.  Had some good strings, but not at all consistant.

I was starting to wonder if the Hi-Power accuracy went-away when the barrel got hot but my wife had no-problem dropping plates when I was missing.

Most people I know can't concentrate and get productive live fire practice for more than an hour or two. When you find your accuracy slipping during a session, it's time to call it a day or at least take a break and do something else. Marathon sessions can be fun, but you'd get better results from several 30-60 minute sessions spaced through the week.

[SiG Lady]

Some of the things that dump my scores into the basement with great regularity are:

1.) Rushing

2.) Rushing, and

3.) Probably Rushing.

When I slow down, I score better. God, it's that simple. Granted, I'm not shooting IPSC, but the end results are the same--scores. Focus, pay attention to EACH shot as though it were your first-best-and-last, and SLOW DOWN.

When I actually DO this, it works.

[Jasonub]

im one of those fortunate ones. when i started shooting it was all ipsc style of shooting. did not care about points just time. as long as i hit the target and not miss and shoot real fast i was happy.

i did this for 2 years. i then tried to shoot at club level matches. i was surprised to win a throphy on 2 out of 4 matches. here in the philippines there are no classifications and you compete against gm's and m's. i probably was lucky.

so i thought to myself im good. i tried out a level 2 match and ended up 30plus out of 150 standard shooters. i felt im not that good. so i practiced again and never bothered to shoot ipsc till i met mc oliver last october. he invited me to shoot matches again.

so i shot match per match, level 1, 2 and level 3, and all steel matches etc etc.

as expected i ended up around 30th place. then more matches and im on the top 20. hmm this is good.

then the election gun ban started and we could not compete much from december to june.

then its match time again, i again went to top 20, then got into the top 10, then i was fifth and beat a known gm. then i started shooting i screwed up and landed 17th place at a level 3 match. 12 stages and i finished it in a day. was tired and got 5 mikes on that disaster.

so on the next level 3 match i decided to shoot only a's and shoot it in 2 days. Bad mistake, i had 1 mike and a bunch of a's but landed 33rd overall. A range officer asked me whats the matter with me since i seem to shoot slow. I commented i never want to mike a target ever. so i was searching for holes on the a zone before leaving a shooting position.

ill now shoot the way i normally shoot and move up the ladder again.

the lesson here is that dont think about placing since it hampers you a lot. i thought of it too much and it discouraged me to shoot in competitions. when i was competing again i thought about my placing again and ended up going down the ladder again.

practice a lot, dry fire a lot, get the best equipment that you can afford and make it work 100%.

buy brians book to make it easier, then matt burketts videos etc. shoot accurately and speed will follow.

good luck with the journey its fun and fulfilling

[shred]

Be careful about comparing percentages -- until you win, your match percentage is determined by how well somebody else shot, and you have no control over that.

[Matthew_Mink]

Yeah, but at the club level, the same ole guy usually wins anyway, at least with a small club.

[shred]

Maybe.. but as that same ole guy for a year or so, there's a considerable amount of variation month-to-month in what level of shooting "100%" turns out to be.

[dv8]

Some of the things that dump my scores into the basement with great regularity are:

1.) Rushing

2.) Rushing, and

3.) Probably Rushing.

When I slow down, I score better. God, it's that simple. Granted, I'm not shooting IPSC, but the end results are the same--scores. Focus, pay attention to EACH shot as though it were your first-best-and-last, and SLOW DOWN.

When I actually DO this, it works.

What SiG Lady said. Big time!

[diehli]

Yeah, but at the club level, the same ole guy usually wins anyway, at least with a small club.

'Round these parts it's normally either Jojo Vidanes, Mike Voigt, Taran Butler, or K.C. Eusebio... not quite the same ol' guy.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi Michael,

To answer the question in your topic heading: The learning curve never stops. Not ever. For anybody.

Welcome aboard the IPSC rollercoaster, and welcome to the BE Forums.

[Kingman]

yeh same old around here normally ends up someone like phil strader, todd sindelar etc.

[shred]

If it's just one super-shooter, the problem is even worse if they have a bad day or whatever. If there's a few battling it out, then the results may be more normalized... except everybody else will be 20% lower

[Mistral404]

I am a big proponent of taking a good class. I did a two class with Matt Burkett (there are others of course).

I went from a Limited D to Limited B in less than 10 months!

Another big moment came when Don Golembieski said "if you know where your front sight was when you pulled the trigger, you have nothing to worry about. GM's refer to this as calling your shot."

I fell into the speed trap when shooting L10. Sure the faster I shot the better my time. But it all comes back to haunt you when you move from bottom ot C to top of C. I do not believe you can really move into B class without really have good accuracy. Knowing when that shot landed is more important than shooting fast as easy targets.

My suggestions are:

1. Buy Matt's DVD

2. Get a real lesson

3. Dry fire, Dry fire

4. Watch your front sight

5. Be suprised when the shot breaks(trigger control)

These are the fundamentals, that I believe, will get your further faster.

[uscbigdawg]

A friend that just won L10 at a major match, made an interesting analysis, with regards to shooting L10 vs. Limited (he's a great Limited shooter).

L10 for him is like shooting Limited with every stage being Virginia Count. Because he's way down in ammunition, he takes that extra split second to watch the front sight. After doing this for a couple of months, he's found that when he shoots Limited, he's made a HUGE jump in performance. As you progress, points become more and more critical (just figured that one out ).

Shoot whatcha got and learn to do things right before developing bad habits that are REALLY hard to overcome.

Rich

[michael_aos]

Also we are having steel matches on Wednesday nights at PWSA starting around 5:30 or so, the match last week was a real eye opener for me, taught me more in 2 hours or so of shooting than most full matches.

I was down there last week and I'm hoping to make it down there again tonight.

Pretty much reinforced that I suck.

The course required something like 80rds and I think it took me over 200!

The plate-rack "stage" required 6 plates, 4 times -- so 24 shots. I think it took me like 80 or something!

There was another one -- 3 "mini" poppers, "micro" popper (twice) and a stop-plate. 9 shots x 4 = 36. Seemed like I shot at that stop-plate for days.

Mike

[Jim Norman]

Mike,

Please take this in the helpful manner it is intended. If you can't shoot slowly, you can't shoot fast!

In other words, you need to be able to line up the sights and hit a 6" plate at 25 yards consistently. When you can, go faster. When you find you can't hit it, slow down just a bit. Very few people can miss fast enough to win. And they can only do it if the other guy in their class does worse!

If you are shooting as many rounds as you say, you have one or more problems to overcome. Is your gun sighted in? Can you carefully aim at a plate and hit it every time? Can you group 1-2" at 15-25 yards? Place 20 rounds on a 3" circle at that distance? If not you need to ether sight in or practice till you can, no point in running and trying to burn a course down till you can hit reliable what you are shooting at.

Jim Norman