STI Trojan or CZ Shadow T

[wiiawiwb]

I'll be deciding this week about getting a CZ Shadow T or a STI Trojan in 9mm. People on the CZ forum make their case why the Shadow is a better choice between the two. I'd love to hear from 1911 owners why an STI Trojan would be a better choice.

First, this pistol will be used strictly for fun at the range. I may or may not become involved in shooting games. Second, if I were to get a CZ Shadow it would be through the CZ Custom shop so the Trojan would be compared to something Angus has tinkered with.

Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

[Neomet]

Just fun? Almost certainly the CZ. Both are metal framed guns so recoil will be about the same. The CZ was designed as a 9, can carry up to 23 rounds with a mag extension, and is a blast to shoot. Don't like a DA trigger? Not an issue if you are just playing. If you do decide to compete I think there is a fair argument that the CZ will be a more competitive piece than the Trojan, just because everyone shoots minor in Production. Stock Trojan trigger is right about 4lbs, maybe a little less. The CZ SA trigger will be less. Not quite the feel of a 1911 but my feeling is most folks notice the trigger way more when they are dryfiring/seeing how their trigger feels than when they are actually shooting their guns. Opinions will vary on that. If you are a true believer that is of the opinion that gun development ended with JMB then you will probably like the Trojan more just for that. My experience is the CZ is more accurate but both are fine for fun guns, and actually for the games we play here. In the end either of these will be fun guns to shoot but I think the CZ will offer you more.

Just my .02.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Neomet

[gator11]

I can't speak about the CZ because I don't have one. Im sure there fine pistols, based on what I always hear about them. I can speak to the 9mm. Trojan. Based on price its the finest quality pistol I have ever purchased. The fun factor is thru the roof for one reason, accuracy. I've given the the Trojan to my 69 year old mother and all she had to say was wow. Every single person who shoots it loves it. IMO the Trojan just makes you shoot better and that always is more fun. Good luck with your decision.

[polizei1]

Uh, easy. 1911 > anything else. Single Stack > Production.

Is there an actual comparison? Pretty easy if you ask me.

[pivoproseem]

I would bet money that the CZ is more accurate than the Trojan....

[Mike21STI]

Trojan all the way... granted it has less capacity but nothing beats a 1911 trigger...

[HoMiE]

CZ shadow over a 9mm Trojan any day, If you may or may not play games, you can play more more games with shadow. You stuck with shooting steel or idpa with a Trojan. CZ you can play in more divisions if you choose down the road.

[polizei1]

You can shoot the Trojan in single stack and limited 10. It's a 1911, it's better.

[PistoleroJesse]

CZ shadow over a 9mm Trojan any day, If you may or may not play games, you can play more more games with shadow. You stuck with shooting steel or idpa with a Trojan. CZ you can play in more divisions if you choose down the road.

+1 I sold my Shadow, I wish I would have kept it.

[OffshoreMan72]

Do like I do...

Get both!!

[wiiawiwb]

Do like I do...

Get both!!

I'd like to but my wallet won't allow that option. It's telling me to chose Door #1 or Door #2.

[19852]

I own a early Angus tuned CZ [9mm] and a STI Ranger 2 in .45. Both are great for their intended purpose. It used to be that the 9mm 1911 was a gamble as far as reliability was concerned. But I have owned two and both were reliable enough for games. 10 round mags are available for the 1911, 15+ for the CZ. My CZ is SA only and the trigger is everything I could ask of it. I sold my 9mm 1911's, the CZ does what I need it to do quite well. With a DA/SA CZ one could compete in production, IDPA SSP and ESP and probably a few others. You really can't go wrong with either choice.

[GForceLizard]

It's easier to do a fast magazine reload on a Trojan with a magwell than with a stock CZ.* You will hear my 9mm 1911 runs great but you will also hear my 9mm 1911 won't feed, won't lock back, ... Fact is the CZ has a higher probability of being problem free than a 9mm 1911. Who knows you may be one of the lucky ones. I'd say flip a coin. Either choice is a good one.

* I feel this is a fair comparison because 1) a S&A magwell is flush to the sides of the gun and 2) adding a magwell to the CZ may or not be easy based on your needs.

[skdmrklcy]

If I wanted a fun gun b/t those two I would go with the CZ unless you just love the 1911 platform...

The CZ will give you more options is setup quite well out of the box... you will want to add stuff to the Trojan.

For your situation, I would go CZ.

[GorbashUK]

Have owned 2 SPO1, both great wee guns. Now own a Trojan and reckon its a much nicer gun. But you are comparing chalk and cheese here, the CZ is a high cap 9mm PD gun, the STI is a low cap single stack 45 ?!?!

[Wideload]

Do like I do...

Get both!!

I'd like to but my wallet won't allow that option. It's telling me to chose Door #1 or Door #2.

You really can't go too wrong with either. See if you can borrow and shoot both and go with the one you shoot better.

If you can't find any to shoot, at least try and hold them and see which one feels better in your hands.

If you ever decide to come play in USPSA or IDPA, there is a Division that you will fit into with either gun.

[blind bat]

I own a 75 Shadow T and a Brazos worked over Trojan.

Both are nice guns. The Shadow is out of the box more reliable. If you like 1911's and like to tinker the Trojan may be OK. If you want something that you can immediately take to a match the CZ is the only option. I know three local shooters who had 9mm Trojans and sold them due to FTF or slide lock issues.

My Trojan Mods:

Disabled Grip Safety

Clearanced Ejector

Wilson ETM Mags: One coil removed

Lighter Main and Recoil Springs (17lb and 9lb I think)

Aftec Extractor

Some people say the Trojan will only feed round nose ammo. I haven't found this to be true. Mine eats Montana Gold 124gr JHPs with ease. Everyone agrees the finish on the Trojan sucks and will wear with just a little holster work. The sloppy plastic trigger is also annoying.

I'd recommend if you get the Trojan, buy it from Dawson with a reliablity package, trigger job and in hard chrome. Buy Tripp mags or Wilson ETM Mags and cut one coil off the bottom.

[wiiawiwb]

I'm not a handy person so tinkering, or fine tuning, a pistol myself is out of the question. I wish I were mechanically oriented, because it looks like it would be fun, but as Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." That may tip the scale in favor of the CZ Shadow.

There is no way to handle either gun as no one anywhere close has them in stock. One gun shop locally does have both an STI Spartan and a CZ Kadet and I handled both today. I think they are reasonably similar in weight and size to the Trojan and Shadow. If the feel is also similar then either would work as both felt great in my hand.

[Steel Tammer]

+1 on the Trojan! I have never owned a CZ so cannot bash it. I do however own a Trojan in 9mm and I have to say it is one fine blaster. It is very accurate, and is not picky about any ammo. I'm not sure if I am lucky or not, but I do not have any issues with feeding like others may claim. It is a very comfortable gun that fits me well. My advice would be to get the one that feels comfortable for you, you the one that has to shoot it.

O yea one other thing on the Trojan, it's a 1911!!!!!!!

[GunshineST]

"First, this pistol will be used strictly for fun at the range."

Since it isn't a game gun, I personally find 1911's more enjoyable and fun to shoot as compared to striker fired or DA/SA auto pistols. Have you ever shot a 1911? What about the CZ? Have you fired a Beretta? Not sure if you can compare the CZ to the Beretta, but it's a DA/SA pistol that I personally dislike shooting. I find it clunky with an awkward trigger pull. YMMV. I'd take a glock over a CZ or Beretta any day of the week.

What does a CZ blessed by Angus cost? Would that equal the cost of the Trojan? Make sure to compare fairly...

Personally, I don't like the way CZ's feel. Notice a recurring theme? Personally...it's a personal thing, especially since it's for a fun range gun and not shooting competitively. The nice thing is if you buy one and end up not liking it, you can sell it at small or no loss and buy something else.

That said, TROJAN. 1911's point better, feel better, are way cooler, and will shave full seconds off of your 1/4 mile. The only thing arguably better than a 1911 is a 2011.

[ck1]

Having owned and put thousands of rounds through both, I say go for the Shadow no question. The Trojans are great pistols, but being a 9mm 1911, expect headaches if you go that route, the CZ Shadows are almost an "unknown quantity" to a lot of 1911 shooters, many of them would be downright shocked to feel just a how good a Shadow's trigger is even compared to a nice top-shelf 1911's. IMO, a kick-ass trigger is one of the main, if not THE reason, to go with the 1911 platform... nothing else really compares, well except for a Shadow's trigger.

The two pistols are different animals, but they really have a lot more in common than one might think: they both are heavy, solid-feeling guns, with great ergos, excellent built-in mechanical accuracy, and scary-good triggers... but they also can both be adapted to different size hands and tuned with spring-weights and such to perform exactly as their pilot intends; while not even close to the 1911 aftermarket, pretty much everything a a tinkerer would want to play around with a Shadow is out there and available (sights, grips, magwells, etc).

The Trojans in 9mm are fantastic when they're working well, but there is kind of a lot involved with getting one to run right, and getting an example to run 100% is maybe even next to impossible. Seems there are lots of reports from guys claiming their's runs 100%, yet in my experience it seems some of these guys have selective amnesia, as I've seen a couple guys who've posted those experiences have multiple malfs and jams right in front of me and then carry on a few days later telling tales of 100% reliability like it never happened... Perform a search of "Trojan 9mm" and/or "9mm 1911" on the forum and you'll see pretty quickly that they can be quite the enigma to get to run; there'll be plenty of "use these mags", "re-profile the slide-stop", "bend the mag springs here", etc... now I'm not hating down on the Trojans or 9mm 1911's, but let's just say it's not all just a case of coincidence. The 9mm 1911's have inherent reliability hurdles to overcome in the born-for-longer OAL-.45acp design that are just not present in the born-for-9mm Shadow platform. Now I'm not saying you won't find some issues with the Shadows out there either, but 9 times out of 10 with the Shadows it will stem from a guy attempting to set one up with a sub-6lb double-action pull, and that ain't real easy to do, left in a "real world reliable" state, just about any Shadow can be expected to deliver a crisp, creep-free and sweet 3lb or less SA pull with a 6-7lb DA pull, lowering the DA weight can quickly become a PITA and throw the gun's reliability in the toilet.

IMO, the Shadows deliver pretty much what everybody is looking for from a sick 9mm 1911, just without the headaches/drawbacks.

If you can, better than anything I could offer, try to get a hold of a Shadow and a Trojan or similar 9mm 1911 and put some rounds downrange, my bet is that the differences and similarities will bare themselves out pretty quickly and you'll find that the Shadows offer all the good things you'd want from the 1911 platform, while being far and away more reliable with the 9mm cartridge.

Edited April 25, 2012 by ck1

[jaggy13]

I own a single stack 9mm and love it.

I would have said go that route until I had fired a couple of tuned CZ's.

I considered the CZ over a 2011 in 9mm for a while before deciding to build a limited gun.

If you can, shoot them both. But I would say the CZ isn't a bad way to go.

Edited April 26, 2012 by jaggy13

[GunshineST]

...I'd love to hear from 1911 owners why an STI Trojan would be a better choice.

First, this pistol will be used strictly for fun at the range. I may or may not become involved in shooting games. Second, if I were to get a CZ Shadow it would be through the CZ Custom shop so the Trojan would be compared to something Angus has tinkered with.

Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

I think JMB is going to hex some of the members here for their comments...OP asked why the Trojan would be a better choice, not for reasons to go for the CZ. This is the 1911 forum, right? If you shoot a 1911 or 2011, I'd recommend sticking up for your sidearm, otherwise, be prepared for bad juju

from a true believer

[Bob DuBois]

Never owned a Shadow have a friend with one and have shot his gun but it went back to CZ twice to get it right. Now it's smooth and accurate, very good shooter.

I do own a Trojan in 9mm and have placed it at the top of my keeper list. It's well tuned and it took a little effort to get the bugs out. I shoot it more than any other pistol I own, blast! Everyone I know with a Trojan has spent money or time on parts and tuning, mag wells, trigger work, extended releases and safetys etc. Plan this with the cost of the pistol. It's part of shooting 1911 pistols and those who enjoy them enjoy modifying them to suit their needs.

Expect to spend a little on any pistol that you want max performance out of. You would enjoy either, which one feels the best in your hand?

[wiiawiwb]

Where I live you won't find either at a gun shop. I have tried other models by STI and CZ and they both felt great. That's the problem when you consider buying something the is not vanilla, chocolate or strawberry around here. You ask around and hope someone has one or you buy buy on a wing and a prayer.

I went to my club's IDPA session tonight and everyone had a Glock, Sig or Beretta.