Honor In Compeition

[David Benzick]

If you are the type of competitor who tries to sign your score sheet before the RO realizes he missed a No Shoot hit on your run and you never felt the least bit guilty for it then read no further. I can't teach you right from wrong in an essay if your parents couldn't do it in eighteen years. However, if you've signed a scoresheet when you knew there was an error in your favor, you didn't take action to correct the error but felt a twinge of guilt when you looked at the final standings for the match or stage, then this post is for you.

First the primary goal of competition is to determine which individual is the best at that particular skill. A great deal of effort is expended in our sport to present a consistent shooting challenege from the first competitor on the stage to the last. However, RO's get tired and they get distracted. They might record the time inccorectly or score the hit in the wrong column. They may score an A as a C or they may miss a No Shoot hit. We check our score cards for errors against us before we sign them to make sure our achievements are fairly documented. At the same time we should make sure there are no errors in our favor which would disadvantage one of our fellow competitors. In short, sign the truth when signing off on your scorecard.

I've heard the arguments your now thinking of typing back at me. "It's not my job to help the RO score the stage." "Human error has worked against me in the past and now it's working for me. Thereforer, it all evens out." Sorry but that just won't wash.

First, one the finest feelings you can get in this sport is seeing your name on top of the list for the match finals. Feels pretty damn good to top the list for the stage final also. But only if you got there on your shooting skills and match preperation. If you got there by signing off a scoresheet which errored in your favor and put you up a few places, then your stage or match "win" isn't worth a warm pitcher of spit to me. Now consider that you also took the stage or match win pleasure away form the deserving competitor. The one who truly got the high hit factor or the most match points, not on paper, but in the arena of competition.

Then there's the prize table. Is there really anything sitting on that table worth trashing your dignity for? From where I stand there sure isn't. Now think about the lady or gentleman whose position you took by signing off on that incorrect score sheet. You wouldn't think of reaching into their shooting bag a swiping $100 magazine but by taking their position at the prize table you very well could have picked up a prize of $100 more value than the one their able to pick. So what's the difference?

Next time you find yourself looking at a scoresheet that has an error in your favor, correct it before signing. Yea it's hard to do, but it's the right thing to do. And the right thing is often hard. Also, if you see a shooter correcting an error in their favor let them know how much you appreciate their integrity. The more we see and support this behavior at our matches the more common it will become and soon doing otherwise will no long be tolerated.

David Benzick

[Jeeper]

Good Post! Honor vs. competitive nature

A win isnt a win if you cheated

[diehli]

Good post!!!

If you want to win, work harder!!!

[Neil Beverley]

David

Excellent post! I couldn't agree more and I feel strongly about this subject.

There is no honour in cheating and how can anyone walk away from a prize or trophy table with something truly won by someone else?

Integrity is priceless.

[BDH]

David,

I will second, third and fourth the EXCELLENT POST comments! That was right on target!

Two stories on this point....

1) I think this happened at the 2002 Bend Nats. One of the Army (or maybe Air Force) team guys gets presented his scoresheet for signature. He looks straight at the RO and says "I can not sign that as it is not correct. I had one No Shoot that you have not recorded. Please correct it so it accurately reflects my score".

2) I was DQ'd at a club match for a dropped gun during COF. While I was packing up there was a little huddle going on and then the RO comes over and says "we decided that you can continue because your gun did not go off". Of course, I said thank you, but the rules state that I am DQ'd from this match, and I can not violate them.

In the Army (or maybe Air Force) example, they just don't get any better than this. In my example, how could I possibly continue in the match when I KNEW that I just committed a major safety violation and this was a match DQ, period?

One of the people I work with always talks about how everyone is born with 100 'credibility points'. There are only 100 and there is nothing you can due to earn more. Since you can not earn more, you had better be very careful about how you spend those you were issued (of course, he tells this much more eloquently than I can).

Again, great post....

[Vince Pinto]

David,

I don't know you from Adam, but you've got my attention and I thank you for an excellent post. There are some (most?) things we can address by writing rules, but honour is something beyond the reach of any legislator. You've got it, or you haven't got it.

"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." (Sophocles)

[JMD]

I’d like to think we have all seen great acts of sportsmanship and that they happen all the time.

Several years ago I was presented with a trained NROI fellow for the last day of a match. Not one to look a gift horse in the mouth too closely I asked where he’d been working, experience, etc. His reply was that he had a complete brain fade on a walk through (empty stage), drew his gun and DQ’d himself.

The other really good story was when a RD was putting loaded magazines into his range bad at the Safe Area. A local shooter whispered to him, but he too felt no recourse and DQ’d himself.

[BigDave]

Great post...

Man, this is a tough topic. Its easy to talk about and be "holier than thou" in voice, but in practice this can be gut wrenching. As the song goes and supposedly the quote:

Unabashed honesty would be ideal

But, as a prophet did once say, "'honesty' is a lonely word"

I had a run-in with this at work not long ago. To make it short, I had the opportunity to cover up a mistake and get away with it cleanly. I, instead, made a very difficult call to my manager and was honest about what happened. The next call was to my parents to say "Thank You".

Honest and itegrity may not be everything, but they add up to a lot with me.

[AikiDale]

Well said David. However! If everyone thought and behaved the same way, Unca Vinny would be out of a job. Honorable men don't need rules to do the right thing.

[EricW]

[Devil's Advocate Mode]

OK. Honesty and Integrity are both really wunderbar. But...what's the point? Where in today's society are either rewarded? I have NEVER seen an honest man or woman rewarded in my entire working career. (I sh*t you not. I have NEVER, EVER, seen anyone advance their career by solely by virtue of telling the truth and not cheating anyone.) It was pretty rare in the educational system as well.

Which begs the question: Why bother?

[dajarrel]

The rewards of Honesty and Integrity very seldom come from the world. One's reward will sometimes only be the fact that you know you did it right.

When I look in the mirror in the mornings, I want to like the man I see there.

dj

[JMD]

[Devil's Advocate Mode]

Why bother?

As the tee shirt reads:

"If you gotta ask you just won't understand."

But you knew that...!

Joel

[AikiDale]

Why bother indeed. Because it does pay off. Literally. In reality. In the real world. Once word gets out you do not play nice with others they are less likely to do business with you. You don't go to the bar with the watered drinks. You don't buy bullets from the guy who can only count to 950 when the case says 1000. The Hate forum is full of rants about poor service.

There is a game they play in sociology and psych labs where you have to trade blind with each other. You can score big, at least once, by cheating your 'customer' but it doesn't last long.

And, more importantly as dajarrel said, I want to like the man I see in the mirror.

That is why bother.

[Chuck D]

It may not matter to the masses but there are two places where it matters to me.

1st. It matters to ME. If I can get up in the morning ...look at myself in the mirror and not be ashamed and/or disappointed in what I see, I'm happy.

2nd. On judgement day I'll have to answer for my conduct. It would be nice to know that I did the right thing whenever I could regardless of whether I would benefit from it or not.

Just because you fall short of perfection doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for it.

[Ross Carter]

Great Post! All a win is worth is what it takes to get it.

[warpspeed]

Outstanding post David.

Sometimes we get so caught up in the moment that we forget why we are there. It is easy to rationalize accepting a gift by saying it all evens out in the end but if you are watching carefully each and every time, it will be exactly as it should with no adjustments needed.

[Skywalker]

I have NEVER seen an honest man or woman rewarded in my entire working career.  (I sh*t you not.  I have NEVER, EVER, seen anyone advance their career by solely by virtue of telling the truth and not cheating anyone.)

Eric,

even if I'm with you on the rewarding issue (never ever seen anything like that too), for me it's a matter of internal peace of mind. I don't mind if nobody notices or better rewards me for coherence or honesty, I only mind my own inner tranquillity.

I mean, every evening (well, I wish evening, but little earthquake only allows me to go to sleep at night...) I have to go to sleep, and I am the kind of person who can't sleep if I don't feel good with myself. I hate going to bed having left open issues from the day. Whatever I do, I do it for myself and according to my principles, not for being considered or rewarded from others.

As for honour, I'm totally with David, and truly appreciate his post.

This is why, at the last MedCup, I had Stage 1 (Jungle lane) RO rectify my scoresheet.

I shot a horrible 36.xx seconds run, but he wrote 26.xx (almost the same time of the stage winner). I realized it only after giving the scoresheet copy a second glance, a couple of stages after; at that point I went to the RO and had him rectify the situation. At the end of that 28 stages match I scored 12th in Standard Division. A teammate of mines, who kept telling me all the time "why are you bothering to have your scoresheet rectified, keep the 26.xx and be happy with that!", determined (after match results were released) I could have gained some 2% more points, then scoring 10th overall in final standings.

When he told me so, I replied "I scored 12th in this match, and am happy with that (it will constitute one of my best results if not the best): I'll rember this match and my placement with joy. Hadn't I done that, yes I would have scored better, but what memories could I have ever had of this match? Maybe the fact that I scored better than I performed because of an error? That Skywalker scoring 10th is not me, thus I couldn't recognize the result as mine".

[Allan & Jan's Customs]

If you don't have ethics or moral values...you need to be in politics and not on the range.

[Garfield]

David: excellent post ! This is the kind of quality post that makes this forum so great.

Eric: Never ? Pfew, that's really something. But I can understand your point. Take "office life" for example. I once believed firmly that stating your honest opinion when asked would get someone the farthest in the end. Well, a few employers later I have learned some valuable lessons. I am not cheating or plain right lying now, but I sure know when to shut up and say nothing and know that the right phone call at the right moment or stopping by someone at the right moment sure makes a h&ll of a difference. I believe it's called office politics. I don't like that game, but I've learned to live with it and sometimes make use of it.

But I have not cheated and will not cheat to gain an advantage, no matter what.

[.40AET]

Honor and integrity are a personal thing. Others will appreciate it, and yes, it is seldome rewarded. The reward is a true and honest win. I have found that the liars and the cheaters are the ones who argue the most against integrety. Only because they have no concept of personal satisfaction. Liars and cheats appear to get further in the work world, but it never lasts.

2nd. On judgement day I'll have to answer for my conduct. It would be nice to know that I did the right thing whenever I could regardless of whether I would benefit from it or not.

Amen brother!!

[ORCA]

Great Post! I feel the only person I'm in competition with is myself.

EricW,

I'll give you in the academic world honesty isn't rewarded and is frequently penalized (bell curves, I won't touch graduate programs). When employeed by a large company it definenly isn't rewarded, but in small business it is rewarded.

An example:

My father is a hardwood lumber broker and one of the sawmills he buys from sent a load of wood to furniture company. When the wood was graded it turned out to be worth more than the sawmill had estimated it at, and my father was paid for what was shipped. Dad could have kept the money, he had purchased the wood - it was his, but he took his normal comission and sent the difference to the sawmill. The owner of the sawmill was impressed by his honesty and now my father is the only wood broker he will deal with because he doesn't have to be concerned about his honesty.

[Jim Norman]

You can steal my possesions, you can steal my money, but you can't steal my honor. I can only give away my honor. It is the only thing you have that not even the IRS can touch. Honor is the currency of real life. Once you give it away, you can never fully recover it. Everyone will ever after cut the deck after you shuffle.

Jim Norman

[rhino]

[Devil's Advocate Mode]

OK.  Honesty and Integrity are both really wunderbar.  But...what's the point?  Where in today's society are either rewarded?  I have NEVER seen an honest man or woman rewarded in my entire working career.  (I sh*t you not.  I have NEVER, EVER, seen anyone advance their career by solely by virtue of telling the truth and not cheating anyone.)  It was pretty rare in the educational system as well. 

Which begs the question:  Why bother?

I know it pays off in personal life. I know a really tall guy who is compulsively honest, and since I suffer from the same malady, it's been a bonding thing in our friendship. I don't trust many people to whom I am not related by blood, but I trust him, and that effectively makes him part of my family. I can't and won't trust anyone who does not demonstrate honesty and integrity to my satisfaction. It's not the whole picture, but it's certainly a prerequisite.

Sometimes I think there might be a bit of karmic reward as well. Last club match, an RO "gave" me an A when I knew it was a B. I mentioned it to him, but he told me to be quiet and that he was the RO. I let it go, but when I got home I changed it to a B when I entered my scores in EZWinScore. After the match results were calculated, I saw that I'd won Limited-10, the first time ever. I realize that it didn't make a significant difference in the math and that my shooting compared to everyone else's bad days made the real difference, but somehow maybe it helped because my decision to behave that way was made years ago.

Being Catholic on both sides of the family, I am obviously susceptible to guilt and its effects on the human psyche and body. Even if I wanted to lie and cheat, I probably couldn't do it for long because it would kill me emotionally at this point because I decided the path for the rest of my life a long, long time ago.

Sunday morning a kid at Hardee's gave me $10 too much in change. He was very grateful when I returned it to him because it would have cost him more than an hour's worth of pay. That honest may not have helped me much, but it sure helped him.

[TDean]

Great topic!

Unfortunately, we can't totally eliminate the bad apples from the bunch. Some people just don't have a very good sense of integrity. The best prevention, I think, is word-of-mouth. A competitor may get away with it a couple times, but once they've been labeled, they'll wish they could start with a clean slate...but they can't and they deserve it.

Personally, I sleep much better finishing an honest 2nd than a questionable 1st.

What's really cool is if you politely accept penalties on a questionable call (foot fault maybe), then still win the match! That's the best of both worlds.

Happy 4th of July everyone.

[BDH]

I have NEVER seen an honest man or woman rewarded in my entire working career.  (I sh*t you not.  I have NEVER, EVER, seen anyone advance their career by solely by virtue of telling the truth and not cheating anyone.)

I can give you two examples that apply to me personally....

1) years ago as a struggling, young salesman, I formed a really good relationship with a major corporation in Indianapolis. I became their 'trusted advisor'. Well, sure enough they were trying to buy XYZ and wanted to buy it from me. While what I offered would have done the job, it was not the best solution for them. As hard as it was, I let them know that they really should purchase XYZ from my competitor. After they got done scratching their heads, they bought from my competitor, and I pretty much owned that account going forward.

2) in my current position, I run one of the largest telecom agent programs in the Country. A couple of years ago, a field sales rep contacted me and let me know that he had been overpaid on a project. After doing a little digging, it turned out that the telecom carrier had added a ZERO to a number, effectively making a $3,000/mo sale into a $30,000/mo sale, which also multiplied our commissions by a factor of ten. While I hate to give money back, I called them and identified their error. Now when I call them with an error where they shortpaid us, they basically just say 'okay, I am sure you are correct, and send us the check'.

DON'T KID YOURSELF. YOU MAY NOT SEE SOME IMMEDIATE BENEFIT (OR ANY BENEFIT), BUT PEOPLE/COMPANIES DO TAKE NOTE OF WHO THEY CAN TRUST, AND WHO THEY CANNOT. DOING THE RIGHT THING ALWAYS PAYS OFF, EVEN IF IT IS JUST TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR IN THE MORNING.......