ErikW Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 You've heard of grain silos exploding due to grain dust, right? Is it at all possible that a tumbler with walnut shell or corn cob media could blow up? I only ask because after tumbling some loaded rounds, I found one without a primer. That means the loose pocket let the primer (and a small amount of powder) mingle with the walnut media in my tumbler. If that primer were to somehow go off and ignite the dust...? Here's some information on dust explosions lifted from the web... There are a few basic rules to observe to see whether a dust is capable of causing a dust explosion:* The dust must be combustible. * The dust must be capable of becoming airborne. * The dust must have a size distribution capable of flame propagation. * The dust concentration must be within the explosible range. * An ignition source must be present. * The atmosphere must contain sufficient oxygen to support and sustain combustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Gee, Erik, you're the guy that taught me the dryer/antistatic cloth trick to keep down dust in the tumbler Well, there are six requisite conditions listed there, and only the ignition source requirement (loose primer) comes close to being an obvious risk. Even there, I haven't heard of any rounds going off in tumbers, have you? I would guess that if media kabooms were possible, there would be anecdotal evidence supporting it (with all those millions of cases being tumbled, you'd figger it would have happened by now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Use rice, buddy...use rice. If it (ever) blows up, you'll have toasted rice ready for dinner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yeah I'm just being paranoid; I never would have asked were it not for the loose primer. I'm curious whether walnut media is combustible; I think it is. What I'm worried about is more serious than a round going off. I think the quantity of dust and oxygen is small enough that an explosion would probably just pop the lid off the tumbler. But larger dust explosions have levelled factories and killed people. The dryer sheet collects a lot of dust from fresh media. Old media doesn't create much dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherlockWV Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I can understand the concern however if one is tumbling loaded rounds, I see no difference between that and (1) loose primer. Unless I am loosing something. It seems to me that tumbling loading rounds, with case edges bumping or rubbing into each other would at least be as much of a risk. Particularly with Federal Primers. I tumble my loaded lead rounds for about 20 minutes and have had no problems although I use Corn Cob media. But methinks this media may be a bit more dusty. As stated, should the media ignite, I would think the top of the tumbler would blow, (weakest point) then a short burst of flame. Probably not long or hot enough to egnite the remaining loads. Although this is just a guess and I sure wouldn't want to find out the hard way. Good & Safe Shooting - JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Walnut media is combustible although as contaminated as it would be if it was old, well, who knows. Dust explosions that I have read about have typically been involving a grainery or silo system or other large storage systems. I am truly not trying to be a smart a$$ here, but why not just toss the media? As far as the list of basic rules you listed. It only takes once for all of the events to line up and go boom, but it seems as if it would be a very rare occurance. JMHO dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Unless you're reloading in a 2x2x2 closet with no ventalation (sp?) - don't worry about it. Most of the explosions you read about occur in the confined airspace of the silo itself, generally caused by some electrical problem. The concentration of dust particles is generally so thick that you could barely see past the tip of an extended arm. But, here, I found this ( and the name of the engineering group is quite fitting, I must say): Dust Explosion Hazzard The thought is really quite frightning, though. Where I grew up, there are large, concrete grain silos in every town. They told us, growing up, if ours were to ever go, it might likely take the town (1400 p) with it. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but based on the size and amount of grain in the facility, I'm certain the potential is there. Another way to think of it is in terms of what we understand. If you were in the open, or even in your reloading room (don't try this at home kids, I'm just trying to make a point) and tossed up a handfull of Clays into the air and held a sparkler or fusee, all you'd likely get is some sparks and flame or two. Why only sparks and a flame, and no explosion? No pressure build up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 The burning dust needs to be very very fine and very well-distributed in the air. It is a fuel-air explosion in which burning particles provides the fuel. In a tumbler environment, the big particles would quash any flame-front where they are, so the only possible location would be in the air space at the top. I've never seen near the concentration of dust in my tumbler needed to accomplish that. For rainy-day fun, go by the drugstore and get some Lycopodium powder. Light a candle and blow / throw a powder cloud into it. You'll get a good feel for dust explosions in a reasonably-well controlled manner. BD: I think the reason may be more to do with flame propagation-- without another nearby powder particle to light on fire, the flame from one goes out as soon as it's done burning. You could scatter a box of matches on the floor with a foot of room between each one and toss in a lighted match with no risk of lighting them all. Pile them all into close proximity and the situation changes because each lit match could light another and keep the reaction going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmercury2 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 just add water ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Erik, Your tumbler doesn't have enough free air volume to support an explosion. Big Dave, I grew up in Kansas and watched a grain dust explosion in a grain elevator. A grain elevator (that's what us un-educated farmers called a collection of silos) in a very small town suffered a structural failure and several of the silos had collapsed across the tracks of the railroad that I worked for at the time. The debris were cleared away and the remaining grain was removed from the other silos before the demolitions expert was called in. They watered down the silos and he placed the demolition charges as a small crowd (20-25) people watched from about a quarter mile away. Two people were standing on the roof of their motorhome when the initial explosions went 'bang, bang, bang' at which point I took a photograph of the smoke ring being blown out the top of the damaged silos. A split second later the earth moved! "BOOM!!!" The couple were blown off the motorhome roof, several windshields cracked and lots of windows were broken in a several mile area. Evidently the first couple of demolition charges knocked enough grain dust loose for the subsquent charge/charges to ignite. The grain elevator was certainly demolished, but with a LOT more clean up than was expected. I suspect the demolition expert's underwear needed a good cleaning once they dug him out from under the debris that covered his command bunker. I have the 'smoke ring' photo buried someplace in my storage locker, but I'll post it if possible. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Erik, I suspect that Nolan is right. There just isnt enough volume in a tumbler to support an explosion that could cause any serious damage beyond blowing off the top. Didn't anyone else do the experiment with Lycopodium powder in High School but me? During a freshman science class we did an experiment similiar to this which resulted in the top of a coffee can being blown off. Lots of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Eric, You get no "Earth shattering KABOOM!" Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Where's the KaBOOM! ? There was supposed to be an Earth Shattering KaBOOM! "What a maroon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 I had to Google to find you guys are quoting Marvin the Martian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I think it was Bugs who called everyone a Maroon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I think the quantity of dust and oxygen is small enough that an explosion would probably just pop the lid off the tumbler. I don't have to worry about that because I never put the lid on the tumbler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 neither do I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 They have lids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Can You actually use rice for media? I know you Could,. but will it clean cases? I guess a media explosion could happen, if your media was a bunch of IMR 4756 and you were tumbling flints. What does the lid to the tumbler do? seems like i heard of a man who was lead poisioned because he ran 4-5 tumblers constantly in a small room(while he was in there). I assume the airborne lead dust came from primer residue.(?) the story was probably generated by someones wife who is tired of hearing all those damn tumblers running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Get Clark to test the theory, if anyone can he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Running my tumbler with the lid off coats the nearby surroundings in fine dust. I haven't checked it's lead content, but given that it's indoors, I use the lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 If you want to find out. I remember doing this with flour in high school chem. You take a funnel attach it to a common bicycle pump (duct tape worked in high school). Fill to funnel 1/2 full with something you want to test (used media). Place a flame about 6 in above funnel, then give it one good swift pump. Warning: Keep your self back as far as possible. I remember the flour sending flames damn near the celing. If anyone tries this and survives let the rest of know how it went. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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