Rounds sticking in AR chamber

[1911 rookie]

Hi,

So I am having a problem with my AR. It would appear that I have a problem with my reloads. a few of them won't go into battery and then they won't come out. At the last match I had to resort the butt strike on the ground to get them out. It does seem to be happening with only my 69 grain bullets though. The 55's have yet to do this and all the brass came out of the same bucket. It's a mixture of range pickup and once fired military. all the brass was run though a Forster full length sizer in my 650 with it set all the way down with good solid contact on the shell plate. It was trimmer on my Giraud trimmer. Could it be that some brass was stretched out further and didn't resize to where I want it? The upper is an assemblage of parts, second hand bushmaster upper, new DPMS bolt and carrier, and a for now unnamed high quality barrel. The gun is clean.

So here's what I know. I got a Forster headspace gauge and the stripped bolt closes on the GO gauge. I don't have a no-go but that doesn't seem to be the issue. I have a Stoney Point comparator gizmo that goes on your caliper to measure at various radii that I have been measuring things with. The GO gauge measures at 1.450. The brass that doesn't fit measures at 1.543. most of my other brass measures at 1.450 and so does some commercial stuff I have. Is that .003 causing me all my grief?

So what do I do? Is that a normal chamber length? Do I need to switch to a small base die and knock those shoulders back some more? Do I send it back to the barrel manufacturer an see what they think, maybe touch up the chamber?

I'm not sure what's normal and which way to jump.

Thanks,

Jason

[Sarge]

I don't know jack about loading rifle but it sure sounds like they are loaded too long with the 69's. If a pistol round was doing as you described the bullet would be hitting the rifling making it not chamber and locking the gun up because the bullet is stuck to the lands.

[Alaskapopo]

I don't know jack about loading rifle but it sure sounds like they are loaded too long with the 69's. If a pistol round was doing as you described the bullet would be hitting the rifling making it not chamber and locking the gun up because the bullet is stuck to the lands.

That can also happen when your cases needed trimmed and the brass tries to go into the rifling. That is what I suspect it is. How many times have you reloaded since you trimmed the brass. I have had this happen to me before. I am now more anal with case prep.

Pat

[Sarge]

It does seem to be happening with only my 69 grain bullets though. The 55's have yet to do this and all the brass came out of the same bucket.

It was trimmer on my Giraud trimmer.

These are what got me to thinking of oal.

[1911 rookie]

the brass has been reloaded just this once since trimming. There don't appear to be be any rifling marks on the bullet. I did the black sharpie trick and the only shiny spot is right on or just behind the shoulder of the case. Everything else stays black. The OAL is correct as I far as I can tell.

jason

[mlmiller1]

Be sure your sizing die is down far enough. The press needs to "cam over" on the full stroke. I actually took my die & took a few thou off the bottom of it. I was having same exact problems.

[strangedays]

You should get a headspace case gage to adjust the size die. This should fix any issues you may have.

[1911 rookie]

The sizing die is down as far as it can go, it does cam over. that's why I am wondering if I need to go small base. I have a headspace gauge and it looks like the troublesome rounds are only 2-3 thousandths long. There doesn't seem to be much margin for error, less than other types of rifles I have loaded for.

Jason

[RiggerJJ]

It sounds like you are not resizing & trimming after each firing, if not you should be with AR brass. that coupled with mixed headstamps and you will get cases all kinds of different sizes etc after a firing. The trouble area is probably the neck/shoulder corner...

If you are resizing & trimming after each firing, I would suspect the different headstamp cases getting sized/trimmed differently. I will bet the ones giving you grief are the same headstamp...

I would sort & load by headstamp for consistency, and of course resize & trim after each firing.

jj

Edited November 4, 2011 by RiggerJJ

[goat68]

You may also need to switch to a small base die instead of the full lenght die as the small base dies are recommended for autoloaders such as the AR 15. Make sure die cams over with small base die as well.

My first time loading 223 I didn't have the die down far enough. I had rounds sticking in the chamber as well and the OAL was correct. The instructions said to pull the handle and tighten the die to the platform first then raise the handle and turn it down some more before locking it in place. After that no problem. Oh, also trim everytime and be wary of water based spritzer bottle lubes. The round may look lubed but it may be all water and you have a stuck case in your sizing die. Not so bad as long as it don't have a live primer.

Never easy, alwasy hard!

[LPatterson]

Like you I've had some rounds not chamber and be really stuck but they were 55gr so I accepted the theory that they weren't sized enough. They were sized with RCBS full length dies in a RCBS Rockchucker Jr and trimmed. They were part of my first effort of doing .223 but the brass was a commercial brand. Second batch went through RCBS small base dies and so far (600 rounds) I have not had another problem.

[Roadrider18]

The failure you describe sounds like a FAILURE TO UNLOCK (round/brass stuck in chamber). This malfunction typically requires the Mortar Method you described to clear the round.

5.56/223REM Brass should be trimmed to 1.75", maximum is 1.76"

You should ONLY use a full length resizing die for the AR style rifle. And, ensure the resizing die is installed in your press per die manufacturer instructions.

On a side note, be mindful of reloading with the bullet set long (using your Comparator). Setting a bullet longer than specified in a manual will result in higher internal pressures for a specified charge of powder.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Roadrider18

[1911 rookie]

Well I think the final answer is that the cases are not being sized properly, they are too long at the shoulder. There were no marks on the neck or bullet.

My die and press were setup properly, solid contact between the shell plate and die. I was resizing on my 650. The handle is caming over properly but it's not going far enough. So whether that is the die or the press I don't know.

I took the easy way out, I ground a few .001 off the bottom of the die, problem solved. I can adjust the die to size the brass .002 shorter than my Go gauge. Now I just have to resize the 5000 cases I had "ready" to go

I started in checking each case in a chamber gauge but too many needed to be resized so I think its quicker to just run everything through the press again.....sigh.

Thanks for the all help,

Jason

[warpspeed]

Also, make sure the chamber is clean. I've seen weird stuff get stuck in there that can cause issues. stuff like brass shavings or tumbling media.

Get one of these if you don't already have one.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

It may of already been stated... But you should get a Wilson case gauge. Load up your rounds and drop them in. If the case hangs out the back you have not size them enough. if the case hangs out the front you didn't trim them enough. Just follow the instructions with the case gauge and you're golden. I think JP makes one that's even tighter than the Wilson if you want to go that way. Then just make sure you're seating them to the length in the book and you should be able to solve all your problems.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I had same problems, but I was having issues from the seater die not being set correctly. The bullet was going in, but the die pushed the neck down a bit causing the shoulder to bulge out. I was trimming the brass to the correct length after sizing. I got the seater sorted out and bought a dillon case gauge...problem solved.

[Flatland Shooter]

Tag for future reference.

[toothandnail]

We have a 100 round case gauge that makes checking them fast and easy, just like pistol case gauging.

[Flatland Shooter]

Found this old thread looking for answers.

Out of the most recent reloads I've had two rounds (out of 150) stick in the chamber of two different guns. Both have the .223 Wyde chamber.

All the brass is once fired and prior to reloading was resized and then full length resized. Bullets are 50 grain Noslers and loaded just a little bit short.

All where run through a JP case gauge. I bought the JP gauge because it supposedly runs tight.

[Mad Doc]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/477756/rcbs-precision-mic-223-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Try this, the likely problem is the shoulder setback. The JP case gauge doesn't measure that.

[reptoid]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/477756/rcbs-precision-mic-223-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Try this, the likely problem is the shoulder setback. The JP case gauge doesn't measure that.

+1.

A great tool that allows you to measure fired cases from your rifle chamber and adjust your die to set shoulder back .002"-.003" for postive function and long brass life. Case gauges do not necessarily match your chamber.

Can also be used to measure bullet to land contact distance.

[mpeltier]

Found this old thread looking for answers.

Out of the most recent reloads I've had two rounds (out of 150) stick in the chamber of two different guns. Both have the .223 Wyde chamber.

All the brass is once fired and prior to reloading was resized and then full length resized. Bullets are 50 grain Noslers and loaded just a little bit short.

All where run through a JP case gauge. I bought the JP gauge because it supposedly runs tight.

Its definitely shoulder setback. Ive used the Dillon .223 case guage for years with at least a dozen different barrels. Never an issue with rounds that gauges properly in that gauge. Ironically I had acquired that gauge due to having the issue with some factory Black hills that was sticking in the chambers of several rifles. Several rounds from every box stuck out to far when gauged and would not work reliably in the rifles. To their credit they replaced the case of ammo and all was good. It showed me that case gauging even factory ammo is worth it as well as for your reloads.

[dauntedfuture]

I am 99% sure that you are not sizing your brass enough. Suspect, but dont know that you selected a different batch of brass for your 69g loads, possibly all one headstamp etc. AR chambers are all cut differently, even with a .223, .223 Wylde or a 5.56 chamber, if they use different reamers then the chambers are all going to be different. I suspect that the brass you selected for your 69g loads was all shot out of one gun with a bigger chamber and thats causing the issue. What is happening is that some of the brass you picked up has been shot in a smaller chamber then what you have and that brass gets sized enough and there are small to no issues, the other brass shot in a bigger chamber has issues.

You are going to need to screw your sizing die down a little more. Ideally you size and try a mix of 10 sticks of fired brass in a gauge or the chamber to make sure that everything is right. Even if you use a gauge; with a clean chamber and the muzzle in the air, insert a stick of brass in the chamber or with caution, a loaded round, tap on the back gently with a pencil etc. the round or stick of brass should drop right out and not stick at all.

When you chamber a slightly too-big stick or brass/ammo, the AR system will size it a little bit. It will usually fire and extract. It might fire and stick in the chamber and the extractor will tear the rim off. Big time extractor marks on brass can be an indicator of brass that needs more sizing. In a bolt gun you would feel this, in an auto, you will not.

In a perfect world you CAN NECK size brass for an AR that has only been fired in you rifle. There is no reason to do this but it CAN be done if you want to, i dont suggest it.

For the ultimate in case sizing accuracy use an RCBS case mic and size brass .002 under fired case size.

It is possible that a loaded round with a bullets that's way too long will prevent a round from chambering. This is highly unlikely unless you are shooting 80g+ bullets, most AR throats are very long. It would be hard for a magazine length loaded bullet of almost any kind to be seated too long. Most of the time the round will still chamber just fine and upon attempting to extract the loaded round, the bullet will stay lodged in the chamber.

Brass that has not been trimmed and is too long has the potential to crimp the bullet as the round is chambered. While not suggested and or recommended most chambers are cut that the brass at 1.760 still has plenty of room. Trimming is always recommended. If you trim your brass each time i would actually recommend setting up your trimmer so that you are trimming to 1.755-1.760 so that you are not cutting as much brass.

So in summary, keep trimming your brass each time, use a FL die and test size a few sticks of brass before you load a big batch of ammo.

[LikesToShoot]

Did you trim the brass after re-sizing? If, so to what length?

[Flatland Shooter]

Resized first and then trimmed to 1.750".

Checked my trimmed brass and found very few at 1.760". Would that be enough to cause them to stick?

Also, I'm using the RCBS small base die but there is a little room to lower it. That was going to be my next step.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Flatland Shooter