Make Ready 8.3.1

[Paul Santiago]

I'm sure it has to have been discussed but 'search' didn't come up with a specific answer.

What recourse does the RO have with a shooter delaying around the starting location or getting into the start position? 8.3.1 says "the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and ear protection, and prepare the handgun in accordance with the written stage briefing."

Okay, What if he doesn't? Say he's close to the starting location and continues to look over the stage or whatever. We don't have a "delay of game penalty" that I'm aware of. 10.6.1 seems to fit, "... failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official..." Has this been used?

[BritinUSA]

I don't think the current rules address this directly (the one you quoted seems usable), but there is no time delay in it, which may explain the length of time that some shooters take to 'Make Ready'.

IPSC is proposing some changes to their rule book in an effort to reduce the amount of time it takes for the Make Ready process, one option that is being looked at is eliminating the sight-picture. Others have suggested a time-limit to be imposed after the Make Ready, though I'm not sure how that would be policed (would we ned to give all the RO's a stop watch?).

Edited May 11, 2011 by BritinUSA

[Nik Habicht]

Paul,

I allow shooters any reasonable amount of time they need -- basically if they're making progress, I won't stop them. (I'd just have to do it again, later....)

Now in your hypothetical, I might give the "Make Ready" command, or if it was really looking like delay of game, move the next competitor up, and issue "Clear the Range."

I'm not in favor of time limits -- for every competitor I see with an extended routine, I see at least one with a minimal routine. I know I've needed more time on the odd stage here or there than normal.....

[Sarge]

I think Paul might be talking more along the lines of what I saw at a recent match where one guy in particular would take about one minute to step even near the starting location. (No kidding) He just kept walking around looking things over in about a 10' radius of the start location. Once I could catch him getting close I would give "make ready". Then he would immediately load up and be ready to go. It's not like his preshot routine was the problem it was more like his pre make ready routine.

[maineshootah]

I think Paul might be talking more along the lines of what I saw at a recent match where one guy in particular would take about one minute to step even near the starting location. (No kidding) He just kept walking around looking things over in about a 10' radius of the start location. Once I could catch him getting close I would give "make ready". Then he would immediately load up and be ready to go. It's not like his preshot routine was the problem it was more like his pre make ready routine.

That shooter does that.... because he has gotten away with it in the past.

Call him on it. He knows what he is doing.

[Nik Habicht]

I think Paul might be talking more along the lines of what I saw at a recent match where one guy in particular would take about one minute to step even near the starting location. (No kidding) He just kept walking around looking things over in about a 10' radius of the start location. Once I could catch him getting close I would give "make ready". Then he would immediately load up and be ready to go. It's not like his preshot routine was the problem it was more like his pre make ready routine.

Implement Mark's suggestion: Step in front of the shooter and ask him to step to the start position. Then proceed with Make Ready.....

[ima45dv8]

Implement Mark's suggestion: Step in front of the shooter and ask him to step to the start position. Then proceed with Make Ready.....

To give proper credit, I think I learned that technique from Flex some of years ago when he offered the suggestion here.

[Flexmoney]

- "Clear the range for the shooter." (for those that are crowding in on the stage when they aren't up)

- "Shooter to the start position."

Paul, to answer your last question...no, I have never seen 10.6.1 used. I hope we never see it. That is almost like a FTDR.

We ought to be able to take somebody aside and teach them. Some don't know the proper etiquette because we haven't taught it to them.

[Flexmoney]

Implement Mark's suggestion: Step in front of the shooter and ask him to step to the start position. Then proceed with Make Ready.....

To give proper credit, I think I learned that technique from Flex some of years ago when he offered the suggestion here.

It sure is hard to see through us.

When I have done that, often the shooter's head pops up and they come out of the tunnel they were in (mentally). Do you see the same thing?

[whitedog]

Why not teach them at new shooters meeting? Go over safety then say something about what is expected at the stages. Not everyone knows what everyone knows.

[ima45dv8]

Implement Mark's suggestion: Step in front of the shooter and ask him to step to the start position. Then proceed with Make Ready.....

To give proper credit, I think I learned that technique from Flex some of years ago when he offered the suggestion here.

It sure is hard to see through us.

When I have done that, often the shooter's head pops up and they come out of the tunnel they were in (mentally). Do you see the same thing?

Yes.

It snaps people back to the moment.

[Flexmoney]

Why not teach them at new shooters meeting? Go over safety then say something about what is expected at the stages. Not everyone knows what everyone knows.

Yes...we should include a quick session on match etiquette in the briefings.

[sfchorn]

Within reason (isn't that ALWAYS the rub?) I don't have an issue with those competitors that need just a little more time to get their mental game in order. I keep in mind that each competitor has paid their match fee, and every competitor wants to perform at their very best during each stage.

I've also found (at least at Level I matches) it tends to even out. A few competitors take a little longer, while a few are chomping at the bit waiting for the stage to be reset.

I don't think we need to go down the penalty route (at least I haven't seen a case that extreme). Usually a nudge such as Flex's "shooter to the start position" will get things moving.

If it gets to be a huge problem with a single individual, I suppose I could always wait until he has finished with his "preparations" and is ready to step in the box before deciding I suddenly need to take a bathroom break......

[BayouSlide]

At Level II matches and above, just before I read the WSB, I request that everyone other than the next shooter and the people on deck or in the hole tape and reset. Then I mention that I will be the last person coming back from downrange and would like our next shooter in the box and ready to go once I get there.

Helps move competitors through the stage more efficiently and politely advises the shooter to get the majority of his "mental preflight" done while the stage is being cleared.

Curtis

[Dan Hefta]

I can honestly say that I have really not had much experience with shooters that drag their feet or that are rude, I think that's why I love this sport so much.

[Schutzenmeister]

I find that it's one of those "judgemental" things an RO must do. If it seems to me the shooter is taking an excessive amount of time to come to the line when all else is ready to go, I will generally (and politely) request "Shooter to the line, please." If it continues, and appears unreasonable - again, one of those "judgement" types of things - I will ask the shooter if he is ready to shoot the CoF or should I move him down and call the next shooter to the line. (In the 18+ years I've been doing this I think I can count on one hand the number of times it became necessary to actually have the shooter step aside and call the next shooter to the line!)

This is a basic match/stage management tool that every RO needs to be able to execute, to some extent. Fortunately, it's not terribly often it needs to be done! The key is to be very polite, yet firm. It's rare that a shooter will give you grief over it, in my experience.

[driver8M3]

(In the 18+ years I've been doing this I think I can count on one hand the number of times it became necessary to actually have the shooter step aside and call the next shooter to the line!)

the problem with this is that it's a bit unfair to the next guy in the order. does he get 2-3 minutes to look over the stage (if so, are you really speeding things up)? and it rewards the guy that was not prepared in the first place.

[Skydiver]

(In the 18+ years I've been doing this I think I can count on one hand the number of times it became necessary to actually have the shooter step aside and call the next shooter to the line!)

the problem with this is that it's a bit unfair to the next guy in the order. does he get 2-3 minutes to look over the stage (if so, are you really speeding things up)? and it rewards the guy that was not prepared in the first place.

Yeah, sometimes it rewards the shooter. Most of the time, though, the squad mates notice a pattern of somebody always dilly-dallying. Somehow that person "magically" always ends up being DFL in the shooting order except for the first stage. On the first stage of the day, somehow that same person is always the first shooter. I wonder how that happened?

[Jadeslade]

I've shot a lot with some guys-like Eddie G-who take a world of time and it is almost a quirk of personality, I think. He takes an interminable amount of time after make ready-clocked a couple of 1'20" s at Fla Open-but really that is opposed to me who takes like 8s. Each to his own. It can be a little disconcerting if you are not used to it, but my main problem was my video camera would time out on me. I'm used to

turning on the camera at make ready. It evens out. I agree with most of these posters. No limit.

[sperman]

If you are one of those RO's that wants to rush the shooter through their "make ready" routine, just remember you need to do it for everybody. You can't rush the C class shooter because you feel like he's taking too long, and then let the supersquad take as long as they want.

[JAFO]

If you are one of those RO's that wants to rush the shooter through their "make ready" routine, just remember you need to do it for everybody. You can't rush the C class shooter because you feel like he's taking too long, and then let the supersquad take as long as they want.

Our supersquad is usually who takes the longest.

[Loves2Shoot]

If they aren't ready, bump them down in the order and ask for a shooter who is ready to shoot.