JerryShoots Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Hey all. I'd like to get some input regarding frames. I'm looking at either a Caspian or Para hicap and would like some user experiences on both. Also theres a poll to see which is used more in peoples open guns. Thanks for the help! Those many of you that use SV STI etc 2011 type lowers please don't be offended that your not in the poll. I just don't intend to use the 2011 type for this build so the input doesn't help. Edited May 5, 2011 by JerryShoots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I've used both in the past and prefer the Caspian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have shot quite a few caspian framed open class and owned a para open class pistol. I miss that gun but I always loved the way that the caspians felt in the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 The Para frames have a pretty thin dustcover so if you are going to drill and tap for a C-more type mount, you will probably have to do some reinforcing if you are going to use a single-sided mount. Later, Chuck PS: It's open DIVISION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Currently running an STI based Open gun, but my 1st Open gun was a Caspian. I liked the way the gun felt in the hand. Sold it cause I needed $$$. My 1st limited gun was a Para. Comparing the two frames, the Caspian felt way better. If I had to choose between the two for an Open build I'd definitely go with the Caspian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hey all. I'd like to get some input regarding frames. I'm looking at either a Caspian or Para hicap and would like some user experiences on both. Also theres a poll to see which is used more in peoples open guns. Thanks for the help! Those many of you that use SV STI etc 2011 type lowers please don't be offended that your not in the poll. I just don't intend to use the 2011 type for this build so the input doesn't help. I purchased a hand me down Caspian and love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Thank you all for the input. My difficulty was that I haven't actually handled or shot a Caspian only several Para frames. I had heard though that the Caspians are awesome so I wanted to get more info. I think my next step is to try and track down someone at SC this weekend that has one and see if I can handle/shoot it a bit. Lol I can't afford to do this twice so I gotta be sure. Thanks again for the great info guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Thank you all for the input. My difficulty was that I haven't actually handled or shot a Caspian only several Para frames. I had heard though that the Caspians are awesome so I wanted to get more info. I think my next step is to try and track down someone at SC this weekend that has one and see if I can handle/shoot it a bit. Lol I can't afford to do this twice so I gotta be sure. Thanks again for the great info guys! After you see your friend, come see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefish Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Keep in mind that the Caspian dust covers are also fairly thin compared to a 2011. I wanted to use a C3 Aimpoint red dot, but my gunsmith warned that it was too heavy and could cause issues with the thin dustcover both in terms of the screws holding and with possible breakage. I finally went with a Doctor mounted on a JV Dynamics frame mount which is a much lighter combination. So far, so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsniper Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 My open gun is a Para frame with a Caspian upper. I like it a lot. I haven't yet found where to get a big stick for it. I'm using 20 rd mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 My open gun is a Para frame with a Caspian upper. I like it a lot. I haven't yet found where to get a big stick for it. I'm using 20 rd mags. What caliber? You can use S_I mags. You may have to modify the mag catch, but maybe not. Borrow someone's big stick and try it. There are STI for para tubes floating around but they are pretty rare since they are out of production. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have been told that when you order your frame from Caspian, you can get thicker dust covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hello: Have you thought of a STI with a metal grip? Just another option for you. I would use the Caspian frame if you want an all steel frame. You can modify the frame for STI mags also. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 my new caspian frame has a thick dustcover, looks about the same thickness as a sti I've had both a para limited gun and caspian open guns the para has more after market parts, grips,mags, magwells, basepads, triggers etc the caspian comes with all the parts that are specific to the frame, and the only aftermarket parts are from egw-basepads, magwell and trigger?, and dawson-magwell between the 2, I'll take a caspian any day, feels better in the hand, and designed from the ground up as a highcap 9mm/38 super frame as opposed to a 45 frame (para/sti) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think it comes down to magazines, starting out with a Para or caspian you are already handicapping yourself. I think the caspian is a great design and is a well made frame. If this is supposedly designed from the ground up to be a Hicapacity 38/9 why dont they put a little effort into a 170mm magazine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 PS: It's open DIVISION I know, but I always love how fast people are to correct it. Joe, how are you handicapping yourself with magazines? My old 1st gen Para frame accepted SVI magazines without any modification to the mag release. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyg00 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think it comes down to magazines, starting out with a Para or caspian you are already handicapping yourself. I think the caspian is a great design and is a well made frame. If this is supposedly designed from the ground up to be a Hicapacity 38/9 why dont they put a little effort into a 170mm magazine ? I have and still shoot a Caspian First Generation Framed open gun that was built in 1993. How are you handicapping yourself? The original magazines hold 19 rounds. The new generation magazines hold 21. The cost of the new generation mag is 68.81. You can get big sticks from Bill at Highercapacity.com (I think that is the website), in either 27 or 28 round capacity for 135.00 each. My original Fred Craig big stick holds 25 rounds and in September 2010 I got another big stick that holds 27. Didn't feel any handicap at all at the Nationals. If you are coming to the Area 5 match next month you are welcome to shoot my gun. If I was going to have another open gun built it would be a Caspian. Marty A-7424 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Thank you all for the input. My difficulty was that I haven't actually handled or shot a Caspian only several Para frames. I had heard though that the Caspians are awesome so I wanted to get more info. I think my next step is to try and track down someone at SC this weekend that has one and see if I can handle/shoot it a bit. Lol I can't afford to do this twice so I gotta be sure. Thanks again for the great info guys! After you see your friend, come see me. hehe yup you know the whole reason I'm researching this so carefully And after this weekend I think you can pretty much count on it judging by the great information everyone has given me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Keep in mind that the Caspian dust covers are also fairly thin compared to a 2011. I wanted to use a C3 Aimpoint red dot, but my gunsmith warned that it was too heavy and could cause issues with the thin dustcover both in terms of the screws holding and with possible breakage. I finally went with a Doctor mounted on a JV Dynamics frame mount which is a much lighter combination. So far, so good. A good point. I believe I can solve that if encountered by adding a shim to the inside of the mount. Anyone please tell me if I'm incorrect in that assumption. My open gun is a Para frame with a Caspian upper. I like it a lot. I haven't yet found where to get a big stick for it. I'm using 20 rd mags. What caliber? You can use S_I mags. You may have to modify the mag catch, but maybe not. Borrow someone's big stick and try it. There are STI for para tubes floating around but they are pretty rare since they are out of production. Later, Chuck Good god I had no idea they didn't make them anymore! Until last week I had a 170 STI mag for .40 Para floating in my stuff. I had gotten it about 5 or so years back because the local shop had one of the older Para conversion frames under a Colt Delta with a Bar Sto barrel. I wanted it but knew absolutely nothing about open guns and had called STI for help finding mags. They sent me this one and a few days later the pistol sold before I got back in to buy it myself. The mag sat and sat and then I found it in a pile of parts and listed it in the classifieds here for I think $45. It was gone within 10 minutes. Now I know why Hello: Have you thought of a STI with a metal grip? Just another option for you. I would use the Caspian frame if you want an all steel frame. You can modify the frame for STI mags also. Thanks, Eric I had considered it briefly but, though I have built a lot of pistols, I have no real experience with the STI/SV frames. The Para frames I've done a lot with in the form of Warthogs and P14-45's. The Caspians are of interest because of several reasons: -I have an opportunity to purchase one for a very fair price (compared to what I could buy it from Brownell's for) -I've used several of their single stack offerings especially the "race ready" frame and have nothing but great things to say about them. -I have ran a Caspian grip safety in my IDPA/CDP pistol since I began shooting and have always favored it not only for the feel of it but the quality of the part. My hope is that all their products are this good. Again all of you thank you for helping me with this. Please keep the comments coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flack jacket Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 My open gun is a Para frame with a Caspian upper. I like it a lot. I haven't yet found where to get a big stick for it. I'm using 20 rd mags. What caliber? You can use S_I mags. You may have to modify the mag catch, but maybe not. Borrow someone's big stick and try it. There are STI for para tubes floating around but they are pretty rare since they are out of production. Later, Chuck +1 What Chuck said..... I just had my smithy just finish an Open Pistol for me also on Para Frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyg00 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 The dustcovers on the first generation frame are indeed thin. I shoot an Aimpoint Comp. XD scope with a neatly modified Red Buff mount. This mount only has one hole in the dust cover and 3 in the back of the frame. It is the perfect set up, for ME. YMMV. Shimming the dust cover should be no problem, for the right Gunsmith! I understand the new frames are available with thicker dust covers. Marty A-7424 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 A good point. I believe I can solve that if encountered by adding a shim to the inside of the mount. Anyone please tell me if I'm incorrect in that assumption. Shims will not help, as the weak spot is thin metal where the screws engage the frame, and shims do nothing to correct that. They simply allow you to use longer screws... which is unimportant, as you always have to trim the screws to fit your frame anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyg00 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) If your gunsmith is good at welding.... The shims can be welded to the dust cover. Edited May 7, 2011 by martyg00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Caspians have thicker dust covers now, just about like SV-ST. Im really Bias: I like Caspians and magazines of any flavor arent a problem like some folks think, If you should run into a problem finding caspian mags EAA/TZ mags in 38 super/10 MM/for the forty. are plentiful and work great with a little adjustemnt. Jim/Pa Sailors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 A good point. I believe I can solve that if encountered by adding a shim to the inside of the mount. Anyone please tell me if I'm incorrect in that assumption. Shims will not help, as the weak spot is thin metal where the screws engage the frame, and shims do nothing to correct that. They simply allow you to use longer screws... which is unimportant, as you always have to trim the screws to fit your frame anyway. If your gunsmith is good at welding.... The shims can be welded to the dust cover. That was what I meant sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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