should I request to move up in class

[Sean Gaines]

I just recently shot texas state limited, got 6th overall, had a stage win, and was hanging with some top grandmasters on 4 of the 10 stages. My overall finish was an 86% against Henning Walgren, and It was really not my best performance at all. I have just started shooting limited about 2 weeks ago, after shooting Open for the last 2 years. I am currently a Master in Open. Before I started shooting open. I was very close to making master class in Limited. I feel in the last couple of years of shooting Open has really helped my overall game, and I don't feel that A class is a suitable class for me to be in. My problem is that I have only shot 6 matches this year 3 majors, and 3 local matches, and out of the three local matches 2 had a classifier.

So with that said in mind. I would like to move up into M class in limited, and L10. I want to compete at a level that would be more in line of my skill level, and I don't want to take a trophy away from someone who has worked hard for it in A class.

So question is has anyone done this? I personally don't want to have to go to a bunch of local matches to get my M card, but if that is what I have to do, I will do it.

What are your thoughts

[Jman]

Someone will chime in with the actual rule involved. Sounds to me like you need to either finish at or above M class at a Major match with your Open gun. Or do the same on a s#!t load of classifiers.

But, I ain't got much book learnin' so...

[sfinney]

I think its great that you are being stand up about it and want to fix it. But I'd say also just shoot some classifiers when you can, and not lose to much sleep over it, it will fix itself it in time. Heck, last weekend at the match you are talking about the top 8 Limited Div finishers were

GM

GM

GM

GM

A

A

A

M

If you had been an M, you actually would have been first M instead of second A and won a better prize? Kind of ironic. And one more A shooter would have gotten third A, and the other M's would get bumped down one notch. Six of one, half dozen etc....

Having said that, here is a clip from the USPSA Classification Administration webpage:

"A person may be up-classed if the percentage he receives at a major tournament match (e.g.: Nationals, Area matches, some large Sectional and State matches, Tournaments, etc.) is in a higher class than his present classification status. " So if you feel strongly, clip your results, send them in and ask them up "up-class" you I guess. You did finish at 86% against several other GMs.

Good match by the way!

Edited July 13, 2010 by sfinney

[Chris Keen]

Sean, I would not worry about it, personally .... and just let nature take its course. When the time is right you'll be right there.

Edit: Nice finish by the way!

Edited July 13, 2010 by Chris Keen

[Sean Gaines]

Actually it was not really a good match, I had 4 misses, 2of which were actually fired misses, and was still able to finish at 86%. I talked with Henning and he said he shot a fairly strong match, except for one stage. I had another stage that would have been another stage win, in which I had henning by a couple of seconds on the stage, and had to do a reshoot, and got "rehoots revenge"

I just strongly feel that A is not the class I should be in, and I don't really want to personally tell them to move me up either. I would hope that they would look at this result and bump me up.

[sfinney]

they would look at this result and bump me up.

I think you will have to write them and ask them to look at it, and request the "up-class" as they call it, doubt if they will do it all on their own.

[JThompson]

I wouldn't worry about it...

JT

[Flexmoney]

- A person may be up-classed if the percentage he receives at a major tournament match (e.g.: Nationals, Area matches, some large Sectional and State matches, Tournaments, etc.) is in a higher class than his present classification status.

Probably up to the Match Director to request this from the home office.

[Flexmoney]

So question is has anyone done this?

One person, that I can think of, and I may be wrong on that. Jesse Abbott, after she had won the Lady's Nationals title. (beating other Master Ladies)

[edit for clarity, thanks to Bobby K. for the extra info]

"She actually requested to be moved up after winning the GA State title in Limited at the end of 2008. The bump was already approved and she shot Master at Nats. Just a little FYI so you put out the correct information."

What are your thoughts

I really think you need to shoot it. Either in classifiers or in placement at a Major match.

[G-ManBart]

I say just shoot it!

I've been stuck just shy of M in Open for what seems like forever. If my math is correct I'm going to be at 84% with the next update after a couple of recent 91+% classifers. People have even said I should just request being moved up but I'd really rather just earn it at a major match or stop screwing up classifiers and get it done

[AlamoShooter]

by USPSA rules you have to get the area Director to approve the move, up or down. A match director could move you for just a single match.

If you had been in M class I would have gotten 3rd A "no skin off my nose" not to worry. IF I had been in M = I would have gotten 2nd M

I think your skill in Open and My long time match experience . should put us both in M , BUT that is not how the Class system works.

You will get moved up soon enough, A class shooters have to learn to take the beating any way.

I think if you applied your self to it you would make GM in one year

Good shooting Brother, Congrats on your over-all finish I think that is what we both shoot for

[Schutzenmeister]

Try this ... Go to the Nationals as an A Class shooter. If you score 85% + there, I can almost guarantee you'll be moving up!!!

[Chris Keen]

Try this ... Go to the Nationals as an A Class shooter. If you score 85% + there, I can almost guarantee you'll be moving up!!!

.... at the very least you'll "know" you belong there. My 1st two Nationals I shot a 77% & 78%, and I was an A in LTD. Then last year ... after making Master, I shot a 89%. Funny how it all shakes out in the end.

[Sean Gaines]

by USPSA rules you have to get the area Director to approve the move, up or down. A match director could move you for just a single match.

If you had been in M class I would have gotten 3rd A "no skin off my nose" not to worry. IF I had been in M = I would have gotten 2nd M

I think your skill in Open and My long time match experience . should put us both in M , BUT that is not how the Class system works.

You will get moved up soon enough, A class shooters have to learn to take the beating any way.

I think if you applied your self to it you would make GM in one year

Good shooting Brother, Congrats on your over-all finish I think that is what we both shoot for

Try this ... Go to the Nationals as an A Class shooter. If you score 85% + there, I can almost guarantee you'll be moving up!!!

.... at the very least you'll "know" you belong there. My 1st two Nationals I shot a 77% & 78%, and I was an A in LTD. Then last year ... after making Master, I shot a 89%. Funny how it all shakes out in the end.

Thanks Jaime for the words of encouragment. Yes, you are right I do shoot for the overall finish. Keen, yes that what I shot in 07'78% at nationals,remember you beat me by a hair. lol. After that match I put the limited gun away and shot open until now.

Right now I am at 82% in Limited, so I agree with Flex, I could probably just shoot my way into Master. I just need to get some free time to goto some locals. I am going to do that since there is a couple of month lull, until the next major, I will make that a goal.

Thanks everyone!

Sean

[High Lord Gomer]

I believe Josh Lentz got bumped from B to M in revolver. Lord knows he deserves the M, if not a GM.

[gerritm]

by USPSA rules you have to get the area Director to approve the move, up or down. A match director could move you for just a single match.

If you had been in M class I would have gotten 3rd A "no skin off my nose" not to worry. IF I had been in M = I would have gotten 2nd M

I think your skill in Open and My long time match experience . should put us both in M , BUT that is not how the Class system works.

You will get moved up soon enough, A class shooters have to learn to take the beating any way.

I think if you applied your self to it you would make GM in one year

Good shooting Brother, Congrats on your over-all finish I think that is what we both shoot for

Try this ... Go to the Nationals as an A Class shooter. If you score 85% + there, I can almost guarantee you'll be moving up!!!

.... at the very least you'll "know" you belong there. My 1st two Nationals I shot a 77% & 78%, and I was an A in LTD. Then last year ... after making Master, I shot a 89%. Funny how it all shakes out in the end.

Thanks Jaime for the words of encouragment. Yes, you are right I do shoot for the overall finish. Keen, yes that what I shot in 07'78% at nationals,remember you beat me by a hair. lol. After that match I put the limited gun away and shot open until now.

Right now I am at 82% in Limited, so I agree with Flex, I could probably just shoot my way into Master. I just need to get some free time to goto some locals. I am going to do that since there is a couple of month lull, until the next major, I will make that a goal.

Thanks everyone!

Sean

Sean, congratulations on the good shoot.

[Corey]

Are you guys talking about the % you get in the overall results? Just trying to wrap my head around the thread concept.

As for Sean, I'd just shoot classifiers and things will happen on their own, but good for you for wanting to bump yourself! shows real class instead of just wanting to beat up people you know you are better than until the system catches it and moves you up.

[CHA-LEE]

Two things.....

First, what is wrong with simply earning the next level of classification by shooting classifiers? Shooting is fun and when you earn a classification by shooting well it makes you feel all that much more proud of your accomplishments.

Second, using a sectional level match as a yard stick to determine your national classification level isn't the best resource to make that determination. As stated by others, the Nationals will give you the best understanding of where your current skill level is.

[Schutzenmeister]

[...]

Second, using a sectional level match as a yard stick to determine your national classification level isn't the best resource to make that determination. As stated by others, the Nationals will give you the best understanding of where your current skill level is.

Actually, it gives you a better understanding of where you stand relative to "gods" rather than amongst us mere mortals!

[Sean Gaines]

Two things.....

First, what is wrong with simply earning the next level of classification by shooting classifiers? Shooting is fun and when you earn a classification by shooting well it makes you feel all that much more proud of your accomplishments.

Second, using a sectional level match as a yard stick to determine your national classification level isn't the best resource to make that determination. As stated by others, the Nationals will give you the best understanding of where your current skill level is.

I guess if you would have read the previous posts, I have shot 6 matches this year 3 majors, and 3 local level mathces this year, and its already mid year. I am already a competitive master class shooter in Open. The match that we attended was a state match, with some good GM's present, Henning, Popplwell, Weers, Mike Burrel, I shot 86% of them, and had a stage win. I am not in the camp of being a sandbagger, but I just don't shoot many local matches. this was not my best performance either. I don't mind shooting classifiers, if thats what its going to take to move me up. I said that in my last post.

[mpeltier]

Two things.....

First, what is wrong with simply earning the next level of classification by shooting classifiers? Shooting is fun and when you earn a classification by shooting well it makes you feel all that much more proud of your accomplishments.

Second, using a sectional level match as a yard stick to determine your national classification level isn't the best resource to make that determination. As stated by others, the Nationals will give you the best understanding of where your current skill level is.

First, nothing wrong with it, if you are able to have the good fortune of shooting enough classifiers to get an accurate rating. In my case there were no clubs with classifiers within driving distance. I am not sure what Seans case is but he seams to not have access to shooting enough of them.

Second,??? So is it presumed then that an M or GM at a sectional is not as skilled as at the Nationals???? To me this would make the card worth less than the paper its printed on. I heard this same argument when I was going thru the process of up-classing because I was tired of bieng called a sandbagger, and wanted to do the right thing.

It takes a letter of recomendation from both the section co-ordinator and area director, and even so HQ will typically be willing to bump one level only.

I have resolved myself to still being called a sandbagger.

[G-ManBart]

Second,??? So is it presumed then that an M or GM at a sectional is not as skilled as at the Nationals???? To me this would make the card worth less than the paper its printed on. I heard this same argument when I was going thru the process of up-classing because I was tired of bieng called a sandbagger, and wanted to do the right thing.

I didn't read it that way at all. I think he was just saying that your typical sectional doesn't have the same level of talent that the Nationals does. Sure, if you just happen to shoot one where the top five or ten guys in the country show up, it's pretty close to nationals, but even those guys probably do more prep and training to get ready for the biggest match of the year. For all of those reasons, most folks don't shoot their percentage at Nationals....so their card isn't really reflecting what they can do against the best.

Needless to say, there's probably never going to be a perfect classification system, and I know what you mean about being tired of hearing the sandbagging BS....hey, that's SB BS! R,

[CocoBolo]

Sean - I don't have a dog in this fight but I will say that the match was shot in less than ideal conditions, the mud, now the mud was there for everyone but those guys that move like a bullet all had to slow it down. I didn't have to slow down I already go slow. The next thing about the match it looked like run and gun on paper but how you did hindged on your ability to hit those little plates at long distance. So what I am saying, it did not represent a typical match. The hardest two stages of the match were my best, why, they had to slow down I just went at my normal slow pace.

Shoot a couple more majors and if you are just unhappy with how well you are doing request a bump.

I enjoyed visiting with you at the match, and you sure have a lot of neat stuff.

[mike4045]

Good match. Just shoot, too much thinking.

[Joe4d]

GM M or D pretty much same procedure for every one, find some classifiers,