Do I need a 2011?

[narwhal]

Hi,

I'm a beginning competitor. I've shot about half a dozen IDPA matches. I shoot an M&P 40 pro series with night sights. I've been practicing for a few months, both dry fire and movement/steel/accuracy drills at the range. I can get about a 1.8 draw and shoot on a 6" steel plate from 15 yards....knock down a 6 plate rack in about 7 seconds, splits are in the .3-.5 range for targets from 7-15 yards.

A friend let me shoot his STI Edge 2011 .40 the other day. When I was shooting plate racks with it I was taking about 1.5 seconds off my times and it felt like there was no recoil, even with the major pf 180gr rounds I was shooting. With the M&P I probably average 2 misses on 15 yard plate racks, with the STI it was 1 or 0. The trigger was just unbelievable compared to what my M&P has.

I was thinking I might want to look into an STI eagle 2011 w/ a barrel bushing since I could use it for both sports (ipsc, idpa). Is the trigger on these guns comparable to what the Edge has? Am I wasting money moving to a high end gun considering my level of experience? In part, the 2011 is hard to justify since I wouldn't really be able to use a 2011 for anything other than gaming, whereas my M&P's are concealed carry pieces.

Thanks for the advice.

[BayouSlide]

No one needs one...but like you, once I tried one I definitely wanted one, too.

Scratched that itch recently and am really enjoying the new iron.

Should be the same trigger and trigger parts in either, BTW.

Curtis

Edited June 24, 2010 by BayouSlide

[hanexp]

I have been shooting an M&P Pro 9 in production for a year or so. Great shooter for that division. I recently came into an STI Edge. I haven't shot it very much yet but even as at major power factor it is a very flat shooting gun compared to my M&P. I do like them both. I hate to put one down to shoot the other.

[Jman]

Welcome to the forums.

Everyone shoots well when they're shooting something new. Much of the time that is. New gun or sights, new trigger or grips.

"I just shoot better" with it or them. When the 'new thing awareness' wears off, the technique problems creep back in. Buy whatever

you want, but stick with it. I have a set up that I can afford to shoot A LOT. The best dollars spent early, is on good instruction and

hard practice. Enjoy and BE SAFE.

[G-ManBart]

I have an M&P Pro 9 and while I shoot it pretty well, I can shoot a 2011 or 1911 better. First thing I would do is put a set of Apex Tactical fire control parts in your M&P to give it a better trigger than factory (it's a big difference) and see how that works for you. An Edge or Eagle will have the same trigger parts, and either one can have an equally nice trigger job done on it. R, R,

[scap99]

+1 on the "need" vs "want" issue, but I do dearly love mine.

It's definitely my "go to" gun. For me, it's the size of the grip, the extra weight, and sublime trigger.

Bob at Brazos Custom has spoiled me with this one, his high performance package is the "stuff"!

[jwayne]

They are a nice reduced recoil shooting iron..........I have a Eagle in 45acp that I have shot for 3 years now in IDPA.....works great with CDP loads (165,000+) and is even sweeter with ESP loads (125,000+)...the only change is the recoil spring and a little less powder!!

You would not be sorry,

Jerry

[twodownzero]

I love my M&P, but it's not anything like shooting my 2011!

[SA Friday]

Welcome to the forums.

Everyone shoots well when they're shooting something new. Much of the time that is. New gun or sights, new trigger or grips.

"I just shoot better" with it or them. When the 'new thing awareness' wears off, the technique problems creep back in. Buy whatever you want, but stick with it. I have a set up that I can afford to shoot A LOT. The best dollars spent early, is on good instruction and hard practice. Enjoy and BE SAFE.

+1

I have no doubt the 2011 trigger is easier to be accurate with in comparison to M&P, but you don't have to give into the 'quicker, easier, more seductive' allure to shoot better. You do have to practice just as much and learn along the way to become a better shooter. Good instruction and hard practice... It's been debated here more than once if the 2011 is easier and faster to learn with, and I still believe it is, but it's quantitatively miniscule in comparison to good instruction and 5000 hours of practice.

[CocoBolo]

The Eagle and Edge need a good trigger job when you get them new and some times some TLC from a gun smith to make them run. I think maybe your Pro just needs some love, and trigger work, and some good home made loads with a heavy bullet and some fast powder, maybe a little change of recoil spring would even help. I've been out run with my Edge by an M&P pro shooter, cause its the Indian and not the bow. I just spent several hours at the range today with my Edge selecting a recoil spring that works for me now, that I spent months shooting open and decided to do a major match with a limited gun. It shot too soft and had too much flip, so from 14 to 12# it went now its nice and snappy with less flip, yep, I needed more recoil to feel good and shoot faster. The Edge feels the way it does cause it weighs a ton, the Eagle is a lot lighter and won't have the same feel.

You could get an Edge today and maybe you will shoot it a little better on Saturday but it is not magic and no miracle is going to happen. I know I have been hopeing for one for a while now, there just seems to be not substitue for hard work and practice. Get your M&P right and work on the basics invest in some classes or even a training video.

[narwhal]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll just stick with the M&P for now. The trigger on it isn't bad by any means, and I think the added weight of the Edge I shot and the fiber optic front sight was what made the most difference. The latter can obviously be put on my m&p easily enough. I just got a progressive press so maybe I should see what the "bunny fart" loads I'm working up with 3.5gr of clays and 155gr bullets feel like with my M&P before I really switch platforms.

That's not to say I won't get an STI someday....but maybe I'll just go all out and get an Edge from Brazos and have them do their work on it. If I'm still shooting every week by the end of the year I'll spring for it, but I think I'll finish out this year in production/ssp with my M&P's.

[dbltapipsc]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll just stick with the M&P for now. The trigger on it isn't bad by any means, and I think the added weight of the Edge I shot and the fiber optic front sight was what made the most difference. The latter can obviously be put on my m&p easily enough. I just got a progressive press so maybe I should see what the "bunny fart" loads I'm working up with 3.5gr of clays and 155gr bullets feel like with my M&P before I really switch platforms.

That's not to say I won't get an STI someday....but maybe I'll just go all out and get an Edge from Brazos and have them do their work on it. If I'm still shooting every week by the end of the year I'll spring for it, but I think I'll finish out this year in production/ssp with my M&P's.

Stick with what works and is comfortable to you. One of the big reasons why the S_I's shoot flat with no recoil is the ability to tune them to you:springs, ammo, tweak triggers, weight of bull vs. bushing, etc. Im sure if you tweak the M&P, you could probably get it to do the same.

[G-ManBart]

The Edge feels the way it does cause it weighs a ton, the Eagle is a lot lighter and won't have the same feel.

I see people comment about how heavy full dust cover guns like an Edge are and it sorta makes me scratch my head. A stock Edge weighs 38.5oz....the same as a standard 1911 does (admittedly heavier than an M&P). I think it's where the weight is that makes people think they're heavy. The Eagle is 5oz lighter, so it sort of splits the difference. R,

[G-ManBart]

I just got a progressive press so maybe I should see what the "bunny fart" loads I'm working up with 3.5gr of clays and 155gr bullets feel like with my M&P before I really switch platforms.

That load will almost certainly be Minor (850fps or so), so it won't really be a fair comparison. If you want to shoot soft loads, either Major or Minor, you want a heavier bullet going slower (with less powder). Lighter bullets are almost always snappier feeling. R,

[CocoBolo]

I just got a progressive press so maybe I should see what the "bunny fart" loads I'm working up with 3.5gr of clays and 155gr bullets feel like with my M&P before I really switch platforms.

That load will almost certainly be Minor (850fps or so), so it won't really be a fair comparison. If you want to shoot soft loads, either Major or Minor, you want a heavier bullet going slower (with less powder). Lighter bullets are almost always snappier feeling. R,

Here is a soft major load 200gr Zero with 4.1 -4.3gr of TiteGroup depending on OAL 4.3 at 1.180 but I don't know that an M&P can go there.

A true Bunny Fart that knocks down steel and pokes holes in paper 3.8gr of WST with 180gr Zero. Not sure it even makes minor but I shot it in AASA where there is no powder factor. A few matches ago we had a discussion of how to score a target when the bullet was stuck in it, (Not this load but a competitior in a USPSA match), according to the rules its a mike, but the argument was the nose of the bullet did penetrate the target, symantec's I say.

I have not tried Clays in 40 for major and from the reading I have done, it was enough to convice me not to try it.

N320 is good with 180gr Jacketed at about 5.0gr, also 231, Solo 1000, WST, TiteGroup and a few others. (MAJOR).

There are some 220gr 40 bullets out there and when you shoot those the front sight just sits in the A-Zone, but the gun feels a little sluggish.

G-Man the weight savings grace fo the 2011 is the grip, the rest is heavy metal and the Edge in particular has a beast of a slide thats heavy. Then instead of hanging a Red Snapper fishing weight you throw a tungsten guide rod in it. If that won't hold her down a brass mag well will get you up to about 60 oz. You can also get heavy weight base pads for the mag. Throw a full mag of heavy bullets in and now you talking some heft.

I've wanted a Brazos forever, then a friend got one I shot it, I shot my Edge, I will stick with the Edge for now. Nothing wrong with the Brazos just a different feel, it seemed very light and quick reacting, the basic difference is the slide weight. So it leans more towards the M&P than the Edge. The guy with the Brazos has the short dust cover he is looking for one with a long dust cover, cause that is the magic he needs to be a top gun that little bit of metal at the end of the dust cover. Yep, magic and miracles, just shoot the thing.

[RufDog]

Do I need a 2011?...... The short answer is YES.

[blaster113]

need vs. want; with an Edge you'll probably be able to go further a little faster than with the M & P. Like other proud Edge owners however, I have been spanked by guys shooting plastic guns so I agree it is the Indian not the arrow. Invest in a good progressive reloader, lots of components and some professional instruction of some sort.

[gohuskers]

Everybody needs an Edge. What's one more gun in the safe...

[Will_M]

I was in your exact position about 8 months ago. I was shooting an M&P in limited and was wondering if I should make the jump to a 2011. I decided to stick with the M&P for a little longer. I was happy I waited. You'll know when it's time to move up.

For me, it had nothing to do with the M&P "holding me back" because the gun will ALWAYS outshoot you. It came down to me wanting something cool and "custom."

My new Venry 6" should be in my hands in the next few days

[elenius]

I convinced myself that I need an SVI. Now the 12 month wait...

[narwhal]

Why would I shoot Limited with an M&P and not production? I know the 40 pro is not on the production list yet but I have a regular 40 that is on the list and I plan on using it in Production when I finally get to an IPSC match. It's my understanding that there is no major scoring in production, thus my reasoning for making bunny fart 40 loads with clays.

[Will_M]

Why would I shoot Limited with an M&P and not production? I know the 40 pro is not on the production list yet but I have a regular 40 that is on the list and I plan on using it in Production when I finally get to an IPSC match. It's my understanding that there is no major scoring in production, thus my reasoning for making bunny fart 40 loads with clays.

I still have my M&P40. It's the 4" version, not the pro. I DID shoot production, but all the guys (actually one guy for about the past 4 years) who have been winning my local matches were shooting limited. I wanted to play with the largest group so I chose to shoot against them.

[feederic]

I needed one! Now I absolutely hate shooting my g35 which makes me feel dirty because of how well its served me!

[TRUbor9]

You dont need one but you seem to be pretty quick so you might want to look into it and try to find some triggers for the m&p i know an a class shooter who uses an M&P 9mm for production so they're pretty nice guns in my mind. but i love my sti's so i think u might need one sometime soon ;-D

Edited July 6, 2010 by TRUbor9

[MikeFoley]

Asking this forum if you need a 2011 is like asking a stripper if you need a lap dance. Of course you need one, actually you need two.