PDF of overlapping target call

[aztecdriver]

Folks,

It seems that one of the hardest things to get conceptually with newer ROs is how to score overlapping targets, whether it be No-shoots, two overlapping scoring targets and what the scoring for edge hits should be. I thought the example sheet that Troy had in the class I took last year was great - unfortunately - I lost mine. I would like to print another copy off and keep it in my range bag so that I can refer to it the next time I've got to help someone see the concept. Does anyone have a link or a copy electronically?

[sperman]

The NROI ruling is available at the USPSA web site, but I can't find the accompanying PDF.

[CZinSC]

I just took the course this past weekend with George Jones. Excellent class! Was well worth the time. Looking forward to putting the skills to use at my home club.

I believe the attached scans from the workbook are what you are asking for. I scanned as PDF, but it was too large to upload, and I can't get Winzip to work. So I've loaded the scans as Jpegs on Photobucket. If you'd like me to email you the PDF, please PM me and I'll be happy to.

[aztecdriver]

CZinSC,

This is exactly what I was looking for - and #3 in the first one was the exact shot (the target in front, though was another scoring target). The initial call on that was a B for the front target and an Alpha for the back target and I asked them to change the back one to a C. The theory is that the A zone is not available with the perfs lining up with the A's lines.

I see from your notes - which look just like mine if I remember from last year - it's easy to make that call as an Alpha.

I was able to print this out so thank you very much!

[Gary Stevens]

They had overlapping targets that would allow one bullet to score on two targets?

Oh no.......

Edited June 14, 2010 by Gary Stevens

[spanky]

I was wondering the same thing. Shouldn't they be, at least, separated by a black border?

[aztecdriver]

They had overlapping targets that would allow one bullet to score on two targets?

Oh no.......

It's indoor and very difficult to setup enough shots inside a 75 x 15ft (or whatever it is - ) range only going down range into the backstop with 30 min setup time for two courses. It might be bad practice - but we have to do a lot of double stacked targets to get 26-32 round count stage.

[Singlestack]

They had overlapping targets that would allow one bullet to score on two targets?

Oh no.......

It's indoor and very difficult to setup enough shots inside a 75 x 15ft (or whatever it is - ) range only going down range into the backstop with 30 min setup time for two courses. It might be bad practice - but we have to do a lot of double stacked targets to get 26-32 round count stage.

Just slide a no-shoot in the middle.

[LT45]

Here's a drawing I made that is a good bit easier to read... hope this helps!

[XD Niner]

Thanks LT45, that's a great help.

[Corey]

very useful thread! to be honest, i have always been slightly confused on how some of these get scored...

[sperman]

I set up a stage once that had 4 overlapping targets at about 20 yards. I thought it would be a neat challenge, I even called it "Sea of Brown." Man was that a bad idea. That's when I learned to ALWAYS have some sort of distinction between overlapping targets. Either hard cover or a no shoot.

[AzYooper]

Until I took the Level 1 RO class I was WAY off on what I though proper scoring was. Now scoring seems so easy and straightforward.

[twodownzero]

very useful thread! to be honest, i have always been slightly confused on how some of these get scored...

Take the RO class. Especially during the "practical" exam, you'll get plenty of experience scoring these.

I was please at the A5 match that every borderline call that I physically observed was called correctly by the ROs. Professional ROs for sure!

[Corey]

very useful thread! to be honest, i have always been slightly confused on how some of these get scored...

Take the RO class. Especially during the "practical" exam, you'll get plenty of experience scoring these.

I was please at the A5 match that every borderline call that I physically observed was called correctly by the ROs. Professional ROs for sure!

i really want to. just depends if i can work my schedule around to get to one soon.

[aztecdriver]

Here's a drawing I made that is a good bit easier to read... hope this helps!

I want to take this one step further because it seems simple. Stick the no shoot in between the targets .5 inches higher than the target in front. But, I still see the same scoring challenge with this shot, #3. The one that is 1/2 the way up the b zone right in the middle of he perforation. Because the "head" area still has the same lateral dimensions on both the noshoot and the front scoring target, if they are directly lined up you still score on both the front scoring target B and the rear scoring target as a C. The no shoot is not available there because the vertical perfs on the head overlap. Putting a noshoot between puts space between the shoulders and top of the head, but without putting 2 noshoots offset by 1/4 inch so there is scoring white scoring area on either side of the b zone. A better solution is to but a nonscorinf black tape outline all around the front target.

Alternatively, leave it alone and throw in 3 stack targets in a Virginia count state and watch people lose their minds because of the extra hits. Ahh the evil. Comments? I know pictures would help but I'm on iPhone this week.

[LT45]

This is what I've been doing to eliminate the scoring problem on stacked targets.

The no-shoot is upside down and at least 3/4" of space between the perfs.

[aztecdriver]

This is what I've been doing to eliminate the scoring problem on stacked targets.

The no-shoot is upside down and at least 3/4" of space between the perfs.

yeah. That's the answer. That was my other solution. Thanks lt

[latech15]

Is there a rule that outlaws the stacked targets or is it just best practice to not have them without some type of separation?

[Schutzenmeister]

Is there a rule that outlaws the stacked targets or is it just best practice to not have them without some type of separation?

No rule, just good practice. Directly overlaying two scoring targets allows the shooter to effectively get 2 hits with the same shot. By placing some space ... hardcover or N/S ... you eliminate the possibility of getting 2 hits on one shot.

[West Texas Granny]

In the first image I would say #3 is wrong. Since the bullet from the image appears to be on the line but no intrusion of the white target is noted. Therefore you can't say no shoot and c. It's a hit on the A line and gets A zone points.

[Carmoney]

Sure you're not looking at #5 Granny?

#3 is clearly a no-shoot-C. It doesn't have to intrude, all it has to do is touch the perf.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Carmoney

[SteveU]

#3 doesn't get A points because the no shoot is impenetrable.

That's why Gary said to offset overlap perfs to make scoring less of a headache during my RO course.

[glefos]

In the first image I would say #3 is wrong. Since the bullet from the image appears to be on the line but no intrusion of the white target is noted. Therefore you can't say no shoot and c. It's a hit on the A line and gets A zone points.

See LT45's post. The scoring interpretations were made by the NROI.

[Jim Norman]

One solution we have is to NOT ALIGN the perfs!!!

When we put a NS over or behind a Shoot, we deliberately MISALIGN them by about 3/4 of an inch. This removes the scoring arguments. Obviously this does NOT apply to Classifiers.

Jim