coldchar Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Had an RO hurt at a non USPSA match when a round detonated after hitting the ejector . A jammed slide/round suddenly released. RO (not certified) was standing immediately next to the shooter and ended up with brass high in his chest. 3 inches higher and it would have been in his neck. Emergency room personnel could not get the jagged brass out without doing more damage. Shooter lost a chunk of his left indix finger which was exposed. I am intending on bringing this up at my match with the following instructions- let me know if you think I am off base on this procedure. In event of a malfunctioning gun, the RO needs to try and keep the shooters body between theirselves and the gun understanding RO needs to be able to keep an eye on the gun. RO should not be physically assisting the shooter even after the initial two minutes is up. After the initial two minutes, or whatever the RO allows, the shooter must disable the gun (make it non-fireable) and bag it at the course of fire. Unfortunately, I can see the RO having to get physically involved with a new shooter in disabling the gun. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 How did that happen? Do you know what the gun was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 The chrono guy was unloading guns with his hand over the ejection port. It bothers me when I see people doing this. Should I have said something? Do I bring it up with the Match Director? Should I just mind my own business? If the chrono guys hurts himself while unloading my gun, am I liable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Saw the exact same thing happen last year. Scary. All the injury was to the shooter in this case. He did nothing wrong it was just a freak accident. Hope all is well for everybody involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'm trying to understand how the ejector detonates a round in a properly designed/manufactured pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Miller Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 coldchar, Was the RO assisting the shooter with trying to clear the malfunction? Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbxdm9 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Chrono guy unloading guns????? What does that mean? Why would the guy with the chrono ever be touching a shooter's gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Ladies and Gentlemen, Those of you who have taken the RO seminar in the past several years know that we stress this issue during the class. From a safety standpoint, we teach that placing your hand (or any part thereof) over the ejection port is not good technique in the event that a detonation (the definition is in App A3 of the rulebook) occurs. I also strongly recommend that a Range Officer NOT place his hand near the gun to catch the ejected round. Why expose yourself to potential injury? It may not happen often, but why take the chance? The shooter can pick up the dropped round. Another technique I caution against are those ROs who purposely place their head/face closser to the gun to see inside the chamber. The shooter should hold the gun in such a way that the RO can see inside the chamber while looking over the shooter's shoulder. All these things can appear to be relatively minor.... until something makes a loud noise and spews brass. Be careful out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Chrono guy unloading guns????? What does that mean? Why would the guy with the chrono ever be touching a shooter's gun? The only time ive ever been chrono'd at a match there was a guy running it and doing all the shooting. I put my empty gun into the box to measure it then took it out and gave him the gun and a full mag. i thought that was protocol As for this incident...what caliber/type of gun was invovled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Pro, what happens is the bullet gets stuck in the rifling leade. The shooter then trys to horse the gun open, and succeeds....The round flys back, slides off the extractor, and the primer hits the ejector on the 1911 pattern gun as the slide is partially retracted. It happens a lot, usually only once. I have the scar on my left pointer finger myself, and never put my hand near the ejection port, ever. Not the gun's fault....usually a reloading error more than anything else. Glad everyone is OK.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) when the hand cups the ejection port, then pulling the slide back can push the round over a bit where the ejector hits the primer. Edited May 7, 2010 by lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I have been cupping my hand over the chamber to catch my round for years, I need to break this habit, it's hard to change. In stead of dryfire practice I think I may work on breaking this bad habit I have. Thanks for posting this topic, great food for thought. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Chrono guy unloading guns????? What does that mean? Why would the guy with the chrono ever be touching a shooter's gun? The chrono person does the shooting. You just stand there and worry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Chrono guy unloading guns????? What does that mean? Why would the guy with the chrono ever be touching a shooter's gun? The chrono person does the shooting. You just stand there and worry... When you are done worrying because the first 3 rounds out of 7 passed chrono, there is still a round in the chamber. The chrono guy has to unload the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 The only time ive ever been chrono'd at a match there was a guy running it and doing all the shooting. I put my empty gun into the box to measure it then took it out and gave him the gun and a full mag. i thought that was protocol I thought that gun has to be measured in the box with an empty mag inserted? And I thought that the procedure at chrono was that you don't give the chrono guys don't use your full mag, but rather borrow an empty mag, and use the 3 to 7 of the previous 8 rounds they had collected earlier as part of a random sample? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 The only time ive ever been chrono'd at a match there was a guy running it and doing all the shooting. I put my empty gun into the box to measure it then took it out and gave him the gun and a full mag. i thought that was protocol I thought that gun has to be measured in the box with an empty mag inserted? And I thought that the procedure at chrono was that you don't give the chrono guys don't use your full mag, but rather borrow an empty mag, and use the 3 to 7 of the previous 8 rounds they had collected earlier as part of a random sample? You are correct. Mr Chrono will ask you to whip out your gun and clear it. Then weigh it if needed. Then ask you to put an empty mag in and put it in the box. Then it gets cleared and he loads your previously collected ammo in the empty mag and shoots it. Then he clears it and hands it back to you to clear it again and put it away. (more or less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'm trying to understand how the ejector detonates a round in a properly designed/manufactured pistol. Try a search. There are tons of examples discussed on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I am intending on bringing this up at my match with the following instructions- let me know if you think I am off base on this procedure. In event of a malfunctioning gun, the RO needs to try and keep the shooters body between theirselves and the gun understanding RO needs to be able to keep an eye on the gun. RO should not be physically assisting the shooter even after the initial two minutes is up. After the initial two minutes, or whatever the RO allows, the shooter must disable the gun (make it non-fireable) and bag it at the course of fire. I'm not real keen on a shooter that brought problematic gun/ammo...then being untrusted with "making the gun non-fireable". The NRA teaches that the gun stays on the range, and you call in the gunsmith. Do we have a "gunsmith-type" on site. Maybe...often somebody seems to fit that roll. Regardless, a second set of hands and eyes needs to check the gun out, IMO. What I don't like to see is more than one person doing the handling at once. And, EVERYBODY starts to creep up toward the shooter to help. (crowd control is important...we still have a hot gun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Flex is dead on here. USPSA rules state that the competitor cannot leave the course of fire with a loaded gun, so any remedial action needs to be done on the spot. You mention this was not a USPSA match, so I suppose our rules don't apply, but I still would not let a competitor leave the range with a loaded gun, or one with a round stuck in the chamber, even if it's disassembled. Too many opportunities for a tragic discharge later on. As for hand over the ejection port: DON'T! There are a ton of posts on here listing all the possible problems with this, speed ejecting, etc. To me, nothing is worse than putting your hand over the port and ejecting slowly. Rack it back and let the round come out. And, as George says, if you are the RO, get your face away from the gun. You can see into the chamber and magwell standing straight up and looking. If you can't, ask the competitor to show it to you, but by all means, don't put your hand there to catch the round, and don't put your face there to watch it come out. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 The situation had nothing to do with chronoing. The shooter was simply running the stage when the slide did not want to retract. The RO was standing next to the shooter to help/watch what was happening . Flex I will take your suggestion on calling a gun smith type over to disable the gun assuming the shooter cannot clear it. George, I am sure we covered this in your class, but at my age I could not remember the details of the procedure. Another shooter asked what gun type it was. It was a hi cap 1911 in 40 caliber. The gun was by one of the top manufacturers of guns of this type. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 If you can't eject a live round, perhaps the best option is to record the time and instruct the shooter to discharge the round into the berm (away from any targets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 If you can't eject a live round, perhaps the best option is to record the time and instruct the shooter to discharge the round into the berm (away from any targets). If I don't know exactly why the gun is locked up, no way will I ask the competitor to shoot it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 The situation had nothing to do with chronoing. I was referring to a situation that happened recently at a major match. My apologies for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkatz44 Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) I hate it when I am trying to eject the round and the RO puts his hand out to try and catch the round for me. Not to mention, it is unsafe. Edited May 8, 2010 by jkatz44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I am intending on bringing this up at my match with the following instructions- let me know if you think I am off base on this procedure. In event of a malfunctioning gun, the RO needs to try and keep the shooters body between theirselves and the gun understanding RO needs to be able to keep an eye on the gun. RO should not be physically assisting the shooter even after the initial two minutes is up. After the initial two minutes, or whatever the RO allows, the shooter must disable the gun (make it non-fireable) and bag it at the course of fire. I'm not real keen on a shooter that brought problematic gun/ammo...then being untrusted with "making the gun non-fireable". You think the person brought the gun or ammo that would be a problem on purpose? Many detonations occur at ULSC. It's just a bad practice. What makes it so pronged to happen at ULSC is the guy cupping his hand over the port which doesn't allow the loaded round to move far enough out of the way. It hits the hand and that stops the bullets exit from the gun while it's still AT the ejector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now