Skydiver Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Let's say I have go to use the restroom. Can I be DQ'd if I remove my gun belt with the gun still in the holster while not in a safety area? Or if I have a paddle holster, can I be DQ'd if I remove the paddle holster and gun as a unit while not at a safety area? The common answer I hear is "yes", and when I ask by which rule the response is that it is 10.5.1. As I read 10.5.1: 10.5.1 Handling a firearm at any time except when in a designated safety area or when under the supervision of, and in response to a direct command issued by, a Range Officer. In the Corrections to USPSA Handgun Competition Rules of January 2008 it says: Handling (as in “handling a firearm”) The act of manipulating, holding or gripping a firearm while the trigger is functionally accessible. Since a legal holster prevents access to the trigger and I'm only dealing with my entire gun belt or paddle holster and not manipulating the gun, I don't see how 10.5.1 applies. Even if people argue that at some point I may have to touch the gun while removing the belt or holster, the trigger is still not accessible. Another response I can think of is "yes", but rule cited is 10.5 in general for unsafe gun handling, instead of the more specific 10.5.1. This is since 10.5 is not an exclusive list, but simply a list of examples. In this case, I refer back to the definition of "handling", and again it looks like I'm not "handling" the firearm by the definition of "handling". I'm straining hard here to make the answer be "yes", but it looks more and more like the answer is "no". Can anybody with a lot more RO training/experience guide me into the correct way of thinking here? Anyway, to avoid the issue entirely, I always go to the safety area first to case my gun if ever I need to take my belt off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Take a look at Rule 5.2.1 It specifies the only methods you are allowed to use to carry the handgun. The key words being "attached to a belt on their person". Removing the belt from your person, or removing the holster from that belt would violate that rule and subject you to a 10.5.1 DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Short answer, yes you will be DQ'd. I believe rule 10.5.1 will be the rule applied. There are plenty of safety areas that are put there for your use. Think safety first. Hope this helped. Edit to add: Email this to Amidon, he's always looking for new material to use in Front Sight. Edited March 2, 2010 by Caspian_45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 George you're fast dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Well you could allways try it and see what happens! 10.5.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Thanks, George, for the reminder. Now that I think about it, this came up during our discussions for my CRO. Sorry to have to admit I had forgotten the specific behind the rationale. Curtis Edited March 2, 2010 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y. Koester Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 It is so much easier to bag your gun at the safety area and take off your belt and then go to the restroom. Most of the time the safety area's are close to the pisser anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 George you're fast dude. Sure.... until the timer makes a noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 So as I read this thread, the correct citation is DQ for 5.2.1 - "holster must be securely attached to a belt on their person" in conjunction with 10.5.1 "handling a weapon without RO supervision". The definition for "handling" has nothing to do with the issue even though the DQ is for "handling a weapon without RO supervision". Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkish Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 DQ under 5.2.1. NROI has already ruled on this. See NROI uling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 George is a Range Master and I'm very sure he knows the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 What if you have to go.....like right now...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) What if you have to go.....like right now...? Who's the RO with Porta Pot duty? To be within the rules you need to drop the gun in the safe area first. Frankly, at some of the large matches with a lot of non shooters around, this doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy, esp if the available safe area is some distance away, which does happen. Edited March 2, 2010 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Unless we're talkin about some bad mexican food running thru you from the night before its a non issue, haha. too much coffee inthe morning shouldnt need the belt to be taken off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. What kind of belt do you wear that you have to take off to pee? Now if you're going in there to read a long article in Frontsight Magazine, that's another story. All that said, I don't ever remember a RO going into the portajohn (or out in the woods at some ranges) with me. I'm going to take the RO class next month, but if that's one of the duties, I'm outta here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago Didn't that guy drop it in the honey bucket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Just wear a kilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago Didn't that guy drop it in the honey bucket? I thought he was racking and dryfiring. What if you never touched the gun? You just undo the belt and hold on to the belt to let your pants down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 This issue would be of particular interest to lady shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 DQ under 5.2.1. NROI has already ruled on this. See NROI uling. I think this says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago Didn't that guy drop it in the honey bucket? I think that was a different event....and that would just be a dropped gun, no DQ if he didn't pick it up A friend of mine actually found the gun in the porta potty and called for an RO. When the shooter came to claim it....DQ. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmie Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) This issue would be of particular interest to lady shooters. It absolutely is. I'm not telling what I do, but in the end, it's one of the few times I wish I were a man. Edited March 2, 2010 by kimmie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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