mpeltier

300 yds and less I would recomend the circle dot fire dot. The BDC reticle is of no use that close. A 200 yd zero will allow you to hold dead on out to 250 and hold just a little high (top of a 10" target) at 300.

Trijicon MRO

If you need to "Wap" it with a mallet, in my opinion its still a touch too tight tight. If its that tight it will be difficult to tell if theres and barrel springing, and it may not cycle reliably. Did you watch the videos on fitting?

Yeah, I would... especially if you're having problems grouping with the factory gun. Of course, just because Apex can make it right doesn't, IMO, let S&W off the hook for making it wrong in the first place. I think the perspective is different on this forum since we are all used to dumping sizable amounts of money into guns, regardless of if they are problematic or not. The general gun-buying public (or the LE market) doesn't have that luxury (or aren't willing to). I think you'll be quite pleased with the Apex barrel. The M&P + (mandatory, IMO) Apex parts really does end up being a nice platform... definitely feels better in the hand than any Glock I've used. If you get pics on groups from a rest that would be AWESOME! I'd really like to see this three-way comparison myself! Good points, especially the letting S&W off the hook comment. They are presumably entering this pistol in the military trials for the modular handgun competition. If they don't fit Apex barrels I see them being bumped out for the accuracy issues pretty quick. Doubtful the military trial will "Let them off the hook". I think the requirement is 4" at 50 yds. Actually S&W is most certainly aware of whats going on here. Their not blind or stupid. I own and have owned several other S&W centerfire handguns over the years. The 6906 I currently own is a very accurate pistol and the barrel stays locked up to the slide for a much greater distance than the factory M&P barrel does. They certainly know how to make an accurate pistol. I would like to see a factory barrel get welded up and recut in the locking lug only area and see what that alone achieves.

OK Art, Went out to my range today to do some longer range shooting with my M&P 9L with both the Apex SDI and the factory ported barrel. The only factory ammo I had was a box of Winchester Ranger 127gr XST and a box of Federal 147. The factory barrel preferred the 147 and the Apex liked the 127, so thats what I grouped each with. The Apex barrel only shot groups a little larger with the 147's at 50yds but the factory bbl did not like the 127's at all, shooting groups of 10-12" at 50 yds. I was extremely pleased with the Apex bbl. The Factory barrel is not horrible, It is the best of the five M&P's Ive owned.

Welcome to the world of optics. Its called "Refraction". The thicker the lens the more severe it will be. Building muscle memory so you look thru your glasses and see your sights exactly the same every time is what you should strive to achive.

When you see the blurry target, centering your front sight on it should result in an A zone hit. Even when my eyes were younger I never had the ability to see both a front sight focus snd target focus at distance with iron sights. As far as I know the only way to achive what your asking is with an optic.

You may get a slight accuracy benefit by tightening up those areas, but I believe that the biggest detriment to accuracy with the factory bbls is the position of the ramp that cams the bbl down as the slide moves backward. This picture illustrates well that the APEX bbls ramp is considerably farther forward and at a slightly different angle than the factory barrels ramp. oops, after re-reading your post we may be talking about the same thing. My feeling is that for the cost of the APEX bbl it would take a lot of work, if even possible to get even close to the APEX bbl.

Nobody said you had to engage. Magnification in a "SHTF" scenario can be a boon to early identification of friend or foe. Or game to put on the table. Best then to point your rifle at everyone you see? Eyeing people through a scope mounted on a rifle is a threatening action. Pointing guns at people you do not wish to shoot is a very bad idea, makes them want to shoot you and those around you. Other than the zombie thing, how do you identify threats? Do you just assume everyone is a threat and shoot whoever you see? No, you will look for threatening actions, you may communicate, but if that person was pointing a gun at you, or you where pointing a gun at them, it would be clear to the party who had a rifle pointed at them that they where being threatened and they would act accordingly. Don't point your gun at people to determine who they are. Consider a bullhorn instead of a scope, warn them to stay away, then if they continue to come you know they are a threat. Oh....I see...your right of course.....

Nobody said you had to engage. Magnification in a "SHTF" scenario can be a boon to early identification of friend or foe. Or game to put on the table.

Not neccessarily. Ive dropped and witnessed some pretty significant impacts to several differant brands of modern variable power scopes that continued to perform after the fact. Good ones from the major players are tougher than a lot of folks give them credit for. And theres no reason you cant have back up irons with a variable scope.

For a SHTF variable theres only one that I would consider suitable. My general rule of thumb is it must be very rugged, and not reliant on batteries and daytime illumination is a must. The Trijicon TR24 is the only variable that meets those needs. In almost 20 yrs of competition and military and security work, a dim reticle or no illumination has at times been a hindrance. Most notably while engaging targets from a well lit shooting position into a shaded or darkened environment like a woodline or dwelling.

This may be kinda long...sorry I received my first MP9 in 2007. It was from the prize table at the Ft Benning 3-gun challenge. I really liked the feel and ergo's of that pistol but wasn’t happy with the accuracy. I had not shot it extensively for groups at this point it just didnt feel accurate, so I didn’t use it much in competition. I was using a tuned Para P18 9mm that was easily a 2" gun at 25 yards, so I continued with that. A few years later I happened across a MP9 Pro and bought it along with an MP45. I figured the PRO would surely be the ticket. I tried everything to get that pistol to group and with any ammo the best it would do was 5"-6" at 25 yds. I could pull out my Para and 2" or better was easy. I dug out the MP9 from Ft Benning and benched it. It was better but only very slightly at about 5". Tried the 45 next and it was about a 4" gun at 25 yds. I tried Apex parts, storm lake bbls and any tips I could muster on ammo but nothing made them better. I sold them and got a SIG X5 9mm. Superbly accurate but plagued with reliability issues. after three trips back to SIG it got sold. XDM 5.25 9mm was my next pistol. That thing was a great grouping gun. well under 2" at 25 yds and never a malfunction. I just couldn’t get used to the grip. I always missed the way the MP9 felt. Fast-forward to 2015 and my place of employment switched from the Beretta 92F to the MP9. I had heard of the bbl twist change smith made and was anxious to see how ours would be (A fairly large sampling as well). They were all much better than any of my previous M&P's. I have always shot 250 scores (Max score) on our qualification course with the Beretta, but my qualification targets with the MP9 last year, and this year, are much tighter groups than I ever shot with the Beretta. Many of the other guys on my Team have had similar results. As soon as we made the switch I purchased one privately for my own use and it has benched with no mods 2-13/16" avg. at 25 yds. This I could live with. It gave me enough confidence in the platform to earlier this year take a gamble on a MP9L CORE Ported from the performance center, and subsequently sold the XDM 5.25. I installed an APEX Semi drop in bbl almost as soon as I received it. For two reasons, one was I wanted it as accurate as I could get it and I didn’t want a ported bbl for the new Cary Optic division. After a few hundred rounds of fooling around with both barrels and the optic, I shot it for groups, iron sighted, with both barrels. Factory barrel averaged 2-1/2" at 25 yds and the APEX Barrel averaged 1-3/8" at 25 yds. Neither of these two M&P's have any trigger work done other than what S&W provided. They are essentially box stock. One thing I would like to note concerning an observation I’ve made on the bbl lock-up/unlock-up. There’s been some mention here and there of early unlocking issues and there is something to it. Randy Lee talks about it in one of his videos. On my earliest models when retracting the slide, just the most miniscule amount of slide movement and the barrel would start to drop out of battery. Compared to every other pistol I own this is waaaaaaay early. Both of my current M&P's the barrel stays locked to the slide for an amount very similar to other pistols I own. perhaps a 1/16" or so of slide movement.

In my opinion its far from obsolete. Its simple and effective. probably the best value in a muzzle device on the market. An effective muzzle device is still an important component in fine tuning the complete system of a competition AR. As far as blast goes, this is a game with a device that goes BANG, It can be loud, it can be felt, and I've RO'd hundreds if not thousands of shooters with all manner of breaks. Ive never left the range and thought it was bad or uncomfortable or whatever. It aint "Call-of-Duty" on an X-box. If muzzle blast bothers you, stick to the X-box.

Interesting that when asked for a recommendation and 7 (8 if you count me as I too would have recommended the Bladetech) posts recommended Bladetech and 0- recommended DAA, you chose a DAA. What was it that swayed you towards a choice other than recommended?

Sent you a PM

Tactical Machining in Deland Florida can do it for you. I just talked to Darren sr. and he said no problem. give them a call. Tacticalmachining.com has contact info.

Just dug out some variety of ammo and did some accuracy and comparison testing. I found an old accuracy testing target from an old M&P 4.25 with the original 1/18 twist. I used that as a benchmark to compare with my newer 4.25 1/10 twist and my brand new performance center 9L with both the factory and the Apex barrel.

First was a firing pin stop. Second was a plunger tube. Both on the same Kimber. Its the only 1911 ive ever broken parts on. To its credit neither stopped the gun from running and it had a very high round count.

I just received my new 9L ported performance center M&P. Also I outfitted the New Apex Grade Semi-Drop in bbl and a Leupold delta point as well as a set of Dawson Irons. All I can say about the Apex barrel is WOW!!! I all but gave up on having an M&P that would be a tack driver. I had three previous to this one but figured after reading this thread I would take a chance. The barrel was TIGHT. It needed (much to my delight) a lot more fitting than I thought it would. I fit it up as directed till it just took a little persuading to get in then took it to the polisher. Best way I can describe the fit is "perfect". All ammo I tried, 7 different factory loads and 2 hand loads all chambered fine (passed the plunk test). My hand loads are not loaded long, and a couple of the factory loads (both 147) you could just feel the lands when turning the cartridge. All fired with out a hiccup, as well as ejected live rounds just fine. The only accuracy testing I did was with my 115gr hand load that was my old 3-gun load for my XDM. 5 rounds into just over an inch at 25 yds supported on an old pickle barrel. I would love to see what this thing can do in a ransom. Shooting at 6x6 falling steel from 20 yds was boringly easy. My 16 year old daughter got home just in time for her to try it and an optic sighted pistol for the first time. her smile matched mine..........I love this M&P Apex combo.

Funny thing in the world of shotgun sports......some shotguns actually cost $12,000.00 or more. Someone who drops that kind of coin isn't going to drop a $48.00 choke in the thing.....LOL. Those guys wouldn't even look at a choke that didn't have a catchy name like "Pure Gold" with a high price tag.

These are great options for a good price.

My eyes also see red brighter than green. Thats why my Leupold VX-6 has the red firedot. Do the stadia lines on the Steiner actually taper larger as they go out like the picture shows? If so that would bug me. Every time I look at that picture I want to look at them for some reason. Kinda distracting.

Colts Armorers manual is a solid referance. It uses a starting torque value of 30 ft/lbs for the tighten/loosen sequence and gives a max torque value of 80 ft/lbs. Bear in mind this is with a 7075 T6 upper and a mil spec bbl nut. If your using an alloy of lesser quality or an aluminum bbl nut I would recommend a lower max value. I typically start at the lower torque value for initial sequence tightening and for final tightening, adjust my torque wrench to 50lb for steel bbl nuts or 40 lbs for aluminum and when the wrench clicks, keep tightening only to the next gas tube hole if necessary. Never had any issues with wandering groups using this method.

Another vote for Kreiger bbls. Most accurate AR's I've built had Kreigers. Worth every penny if extreme accuracy is your goal.