mpeltier

The factory sights wont co-witness with a Deltapoint pro no matter how you mount it. The DP Pro is thicker than other sights.

I dont believe so. Last I talked to them it seemed like they probably wouldnt. (In the near future anyway) I had to modify the Delta point adaptor that comes with the gun and relieve the sight to clear the slide, as well as purchase 2 appropriate screws at the hardware store. Its not dificult. If S&W makes a adaptor it will need to be a lot thicker and raise the sight over the slide. The tech guy at S&W's words were "If a sight manufacturer changes the specs on their sight, were not responsible for changing our product".

It could be a little of both, Hot ammo and headspace bordering on the excessive side. If it were my rifle I would be looking to verify exactly what my headspace is so as to be sure thats not a contributing factor. Brownells sells the gauges, and their not expensive or difficult to use.

The spacer insert I used is just under 1/4" thick and I additionally used two velcro strips on the inside opposite the spacer and one strip on the back side. The pieces stuck directly to the mag holder are the self adhesive type with the loop side. The second piece is the non adhesive double sided that has the hook on one side and loop on the other. When attached to the mag pouch the loop side of the velcro is what touches the magazine. Makes them draw really smoothly yet still holds them securely.

What barrels have you tried? What bullets (brand)? Is the ammo factory or reloads? What group sizes at 100m? What optic are you using to test?

How much smaller? I thought the Eotec was also a 65 moa circle. Or were you referring to the actual size of the sight? (Nice talking to you the other day Matt)

I believe his did not come from the factory with porting and slide cuts, thats the issue. He stated his particular gun has 4 cuts as opposed to the 8 that the PC 9L has in the slide. Totally not any competitive advantage with a non-ported barrel, but some may not allow it due to how the rules are spelled out.

So have you ever used both Dillon carbide and non-carbide in extensive side by side comparison? Have you? The Dillon carbide dies are designed to be used in a very high usage scenario, in short, production scenarios, ie 100's of thousands of rounds.. The internal dimensions are probably exactly the same as the Dillon steel dies, and in reality size the brass no differently than a steel die with the exact same internal dimensions. The only real advantage of having carbide is that they use a carbide sizing ring like a set of pistol dies so maybe they will size slightly easier. However, you still need to use sizing lube to size rifle brass. For the average person who MIGHT load 50K pieces of 223 in their lifetime, a quality steel die with give the same performance as the carbide die. I have personally loaded 10k pieces of 223 in the last 2 years with my steel Hornady dies, and they work just fine. Ill get back to you in 10 years when Im in excess of 50k, as I only really started loading in quantity about 2 years ago. Im sure there are a handful of guys on this very forum that have steel dies that are over 50k without needing replacement on their steel dies. Even the companies that arguably make some of the best dies like Forster or Redding are still using steel. At over triple the cost and no real perceivable benefit Ill stick with using a steel die. Yes I have. have both on my bench. I only use the carbide one now. Thanks for answering my question indirectly. So you haven't used both but discount an item you don't have or use, based on no personal experience, just price.....got it. Nothing wrong with steel dies, if you can't afford carbide they will work for many years. The carbide are much smoother and makes the press stroke feel much nicer. It allows me to really feel something going wrong (or right). If you do any serious volume it can be worth the extra cost.

So have you ever used both Dillon carbide and non-carbide in extensive side by side comparison?

Delta point pro with 7.5 moa triangle on my M&P performance center. This is the first pistol/sight combo ive owned that made 50yd shots easy.

Dillon carbide Adjust sizing die for cam-over on the shellplate Clean brass before you put it in your press. If you dont know what cam-over is when adjusting sizing dies, do a search or call Dillon.

I dont see a competitive advantage either. Having said that, at a local match you may have success arguing your point. If it was one of our matches I personally would have zero issues with it and Allow it. At a bigger match you might get someone who sees it differantly. Best to ask someone in charge ot the venue(s) you plan to use it.

I wondered about the circle dot. The 65 moa circle looks huge given the size of the usual shotgun target size. I am a fan of circle dot for rifle though. I guess though since it's a ring it won't cover a smaller target as if I t was a 65moa solid red dot Ghetto moa math 65moa = 65" @ 100 32.5" @50 16.25"@ 25 8.125" @12.5 I currently have a Leopold Deltapoint Pro with the triangle. It works well but have often thought a good circle dot would be good on a shotgun if the circle was a good representation of a usable portion of the shot pattern at the differing distances we shoot shot at. And the fine point in the middle used for slug shots. Has anyone patterned a shotgun using a circle dot to see how well the circle represents a usable shot pattern within the circle at varying distances?

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range. I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected. I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid. How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors. "You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot." ​Absolutely incorrect. The feedback from your sight alignment at the instant you break the shot IS the only way you will call the shot. You obviously have your mind made up and thats great, but you keep putting out things I never said and trying to prove your case on them. Good luck to you...im out.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range. I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected. I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid. How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors. I don't think you'll find very many "top level" uspsa shooters that will tell you they use target focus most of the time (with irons). And no.... If I'm focused on my sights and "yank" the trigger, my mind will register the sight movement before the shot. You are correct.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range. I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected. I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

I don't think so, Federal Cartridge is owned by Vista Outdoor, Lake City is owned by the federal government and the Lake City Army Ammunition plant in Missouri is operated by Alliant Techsystems and Orbital Sciences (ATK). There's always some confusion on this relationship. We use Federal LC ammo at work. All the cases have FEDERAL printed all over them and the small individual boxes are all marked federal, but every bit of brass in them is stamped LC with the NATO logo and other symbols as well as date stamp. It is excellent brass for reloading once the primer crimp is removed and all I load these days. FEDERAL commercial brass with the FC head stamp is not the same and is the brass many complain about. Any company can use another company's brass to make their ammo, there are various companies that make ammo using Lake City or Starline brass for example. Regardless, Federal brass and Lake City brass are not the same. were sorta saying the same thing, except To clarify, theres more of a relationship between Orbital (ATK) who does run operations at Lake City, and FEDERAL (Vista) than merely purchasing LC brass. Until last year, I think, they were one and the same, and still are except on paper. Vista is a spin off company from ATK and the relationship of the two companies has the LC cartridges making their way into FEDERAL marked packaging. This, as I was perhaps inadequately explaining in my previous post, is why theres confusion about federals cartridge cases. Not all of Federals .223/5.56 cases are the same, as you stated.

I don't think so, Federal Cartridge is owned by Vista Outdoor, Lake City is owned by the federal government and the Lake City Army Ammunition plant in Missouri is operated by Alliant Techsystems and Orbital Sciences (ATK). There's always some confusion on this relationship. We use Federal LC ammo at work. All the cases have FEDERAL printed all over them and the small individual boxes are all marked federal, but every bit of brass in them is stamped LC with the NATO logo and other symbols as well as date stamp. It is excellent brass for reloading once the primer crimp is removed and all I load these days. FEDERAL commercial brass with the FC head stamp is not the same and is the brass many complain about.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

What velocity are you getting? what is your Zero distance? Are you shooting groups free hand, rested or Ransom rested? What pistol are you using? Is it stock or modified/Customized? Iron sights or optic? Your group size is ok (not great but ok) at both distances but 10" of drop at 50m is much more than normal in my experiance.

Yeaaaah.........then theres me. I dont even trim my AR brass. Never have, never will. I always use once fired military brass. Remove primer crimp and load away. Case guage every round and set asside any that look like they might be longer than I like. I do shoot those later looking for sighns of any pressure problems or reliability. Never an issue. Always great accuracy too. In the right AR ive had 1/2 moa. Mostly about 1 moa. Been doin it that way for years and 10's of thousands of rounds.

Call POF. I bet they will tell you to send it in. Either case in and of itself would have me questionong them, but both 4"+ moa and choking on factory ammo......not a break in issue, theres a problem.

I check headspace every build. Probably two dozen or so. Never found a combo out of spec. Using either new or re using a bolt. We have several hundred in use here at work with thousands of rounds on them (all Colts). I have yet to see a broken bolt or one wear to be out of spec as far as headspace is concerned. I personally believe its pretty rare to wear out a quality made bolt. (If properly cleaned and lubed)

Paul has the answer thats worked for me. I dont back off a full turn though. I snug the mag tube up then back it off just enough that it exhibits a fair amount of play up and down. Baybee 1/4 turn at most. Then install the clamp. I also have a section of bicycle innertube under the clamp on the mag tube. Slugs have always shot straight with never any change in impact and my clamp has never moved under recoil.

Not the lip around the sides. That stupid duckbill on the front of the factory pads. Cut it off, sand the edge smooth, and practice reloads for a week where you draw the magazine by resting the index finger on the front of it... and the front of the basepad in your palm.Now switch to a magazine with the duckbill, and you'll immediately hate the way it cants the magazine in your hand. I've also accidentally caught that lip on a mag on my belt while drawing the magazine in front of it, and had it fall to the ground during a stage. I understood what you were refering to as the "Duckbill" portion of the lip. I use and have used many other types of mags and really never found the M&P mags that big of a deal. They are differant though, i can see why some people wouldnt like them after reading your explanation. Thanks