TyinTX

With my setup recoil is very mild, much flatter than the Stag barrel the Nordic replaced. But barrel, comp, buffer, and buffer spring are all completely different on the 2 setups.

Add in it costs half the price and you have it pretty well summarized. Its not a replacement for the M2, just a very very good option for the guy who doesn't have M2 money to spend.

This is awesome advice that has saved me a lot of money. Thanks for all you do for us.

Stealth looks pretty cool, if it caught on and spread I'd like to give it a shot. One question about the shotgun mag tube length though. I know the rule looks back to the SOF days, but with 24" barrels being so common on shotguns that are used now days why not extend the length a little bit to be more what is flush with a 24" barrel? Yeah, we looked at this kind of change, but weren't convinced it would significantly drive down costs for new shooters - the rifle costs the same (maybe save a few bucks vs. 40-round PMAGs), semi-auto shotguns cost almost as little as pumps these days (Stoeger, Mossberg) and are a more satisfactory long-term investment, and many Limited and Tactical shooters already run inexpensive handguns like the Glock even at the highest levels. Oh, and I agree with Gose... 10 rounds in a pistol is stupid, particularly for new shooters as all it does is force them to perform more fine motor skills on the clock (multiple reloads). With how cheap standard-capacity magazines are these days, I just don't see the need except in the ban states (which are already 3-Gun unfriendly for bigger reasons). I like the fact that you aren't messing with limited. These days I think a new 3 gunner is just as likely to have a scope on his ar as a red dot. I chose to shoot limited, wasn't forced to by my equipment. Downloading pistol mags would actually increase costs for new shooters. I've shot now for over a year with only the 3 mags that came with my Xdm, not once have I had to have more mags to complete a stage. Download the mags to 10 and many stages I need all 3 just to complete stages with no misses. Miss a few times like a new shooter is going to, and now I need 4 maybe even 5 mags. Having 2 more rounds in my Xdm mag doesn't give me as a horrible pistol shooter a great advantage over using my Glock 17, but 17 or 19 rounds makes it much more enjoyable than reloading and running out of ammo.

Mark, With a M3000 set up with one of your mag tubes is the gun reliable enough with 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4 dram loads or best to stay with the 3 dram? Reason I ask is just to find the absolute lowest possible recoil out of any gun/ammo combination but still avoid unnecessary malfunctions.

A little update on this, I was able to see a 1301 in action and shoot a few rounds through it. The gun ran 100% all day on 2 3/4 dram AAs and the Estate shells I had. I hadn't shot a semiautomatic shotgun in years so I don't have a good baseline to compare recoil too. A couple of observations if I was going to get one though. Any shotgun I get will have either a Kick Eez or Limbsaver pad installed on it first thing. The difference between stock pads and the aftermarket ones is night and day. Second, loading twins or quads the loading port needs a bit of work on the front. I would cut the sides down a little while I was at it but the front edge catches shells before they start into the tube. 1301 seems like a good shotgun but not sold on it yet, I want to get a closer look at the M3000 first.

I've read the specific rule in the OP and the comments that it is vague or poorly written. I looked at a couple of other rule sets to see if something might be less clear. I see that 3GN has made concessions for some new devices that support the muzzle end of the rifle. I've got no explanation for that other than some people don't read so good. As for other rule sets I've read, seems pretty cut and dried. "What's that do?" "Well it supports the rifle so I can get a better shot, can I use it?" "No." Slings would seem to fail the test for being a supporting device. No legs, and while they do support the muzzle with proper technique its a hell of head scratcher to get some elevation with one.

I run a standard bcg with my Nordic barrel and Carbon arms gas block. Standard rifle buffer would short stroke. I removed weights and dropped buffer weight to 2.9 oz and rifle functioned fine. Since then I have tested with down to an empty buffer and I am currently running a Taccom ulw buffer. So far no problems but I'm only 300 rounds into it with the current setup.

I do believe getting the fit right is going to matter more for recoil than gas vs inertia. She has shot my Nova, which doesn't fit her, and complains about the gun being front heavy and awkward. The 12 gauge recoil doesn't bother her much but she also hasn't shot a 17 round stage just some thrown clays. Either gun will recoil less than the Nova so getting fit right is my main concern. Having never shot either gun, just researching them I was going to buy a M3000 for myself. With the wife wanting to start shooting it's made me reopen the issue. I greatly appreciate any information I can get, especially from those of you who have shot both.

Unfortunately she will not be at the May match but I will be and I would love to look at the 1301 and shoot it if I can. She won't be able to be back up there until the July match. I know planning to cut the stock on the 1301 is probably premature, need to adjust drop and cast then look again a LOP. With the gun set up with no shims at all the gun fits me almost perfectly but for her is virtually unshootable. Does the 1301 come with the shim kit or do you need to buy it?

This article by Patrick Kelley helped me a lot- http://www.multigunmedia.com/shotgun-fit.pdf This is from MOAs website- KZ-111 Pads are 3/8" THICKER than the Factory Pad. Uncut Stock will result in an Increased L.O.P "Length of Pull" 1/2" cut results 1/8" shorter in L.O.P 1" cut results 5/8" shorter in L.O.P 1.5" cut results 1.125" shorter in L.O.P Factory L.O.P is 14.5" Currently working on this for a future shotgun for my wife who is 5'4, I'm looking at starting with 12.5" LOP and shimming it longer if needed. I'm 5'10 and 13 1/4" is what I cut my shotgun down to.

Took my wife along to the Johnson 3 gun match this past weekend and now I am no longer getting a new shotgun for myself, she wants one. The budget is going to allow either a pretty much stock Beretta 1301 or Stoeger M3000 worked over into the P3K when the design is finalized. These 2 guns are picked because they are: 1. The 2 I was already looking at for myself. 2. Reliable and budget friendly. 3. Not heavy guns. This leads me to a few questions. While not terribly recoil sensitive, is the 1301 gas system going to be noticeably softer shooting than the inertia M3K when both are properly fitted and have good recoil pads? I have already read Patrick Kelley's article on shotgun fit and have applied it to my current shotgun. She has handled both guns in stock form but not shot them. Currently holding a 1301 she has to turn her head almost sideways and scrunch down to even sort of get on the sights. The stock needs to drop a good bit and some cast off be applied to even get her close. The long LOP of the stock M3K make other adjustments irrelevant to start. Between the 1301 and the M3K, which has more adjustment for drop and cast or will they both be about the same? My plan is to get either shotgun and the shim kit and attempt to properly fit it before she ever fires the gun. LOP will be cut to 12.5 inches with recoil pad installed. This will hopefully allow me to correct pitch with shims as well cast and drop while still maintaining a shorter LOP. I'm just guessing that proper LOP will come out to between 12.5 and 13 inches based of stock adjustments made to shotguns when I was growing up. My shotgun now has a 13 1/4 length of pull which is far to long for her. Any advice on this plan would be greatly appreciated.

Rather than take apart a nice JP buffer I would buy and gut a standard rifle buffer or get a Taccom ULW buffer.

My only experience is with a Silencerco ss sparrow and not a whole lot of rounds through it yet. I cleaned it the first time after about 500 rds. Since then I've got close to that many through it again and I probably will put the company's 1000 rd cleaning claims to the test.

I took Mr. Kelley's advice from the article and put a light mod in when I first started and haven't taken it out. Many thanks to Pat for the articles and the videos, really helps the guys getting started.

Looking at the calibers you are interested in look at the Liberty Mystic X. It is rated to handle all the listed calibers and a whole lot more. Disassembles so you can clean all the .22 lr crude out of it. Its probably the most versatile can there is currently. Won't be the quietest for all calibers but you sure can run it on a lot of them.

Drill out the center of the plugs with them installed in the threaded holes. That way if you go too far, remove the sacrificial plug, install a new one, and start over.

Do you have an adjustible gas block? No, I do not. Ignoring the manufacturers warnings and playing with fire. 18" Nordic barrel. That's why I've been playing with powder charges and and buffer springs. Tested some with a standard rifle spring, both Tubb flat wire springs(the extra power would not cycle), and now a TTI spring. I've had all the parts besides the Taccom lw and the TTI spring around from various suppressed rifle experiments so been seeing what I can do to get the best results for me. Threw in both the extra parts when I ordered other gear because for the price I figured might as well experiment while shipping other orders. Somebody who knows a lot more about ARs and low mass could correct me, but I couldn't see why 12 oz split between the buffer and the bcg would matter which component it was located in. As long as it cycled with no malfunctions.

I first lightened my rifle buffer to 2.9 oz, then gutted it to an empty rifle buffer that I ran for a while before getting the Taccom LW unit. Running a full mass bcg and factory ammo the gutted rifle buffer and Taccom LW both had a less sight movement than the 2.9 oz buffer. Playing with powder charges in my reloads and backing down from 25 gr of H335 behind 55 gr fmj to 24.7 gr helped reduce sight movement even more and felt less harsh. Can't say that if you handed me my rifle with either the empty buffer or the Taccom unit in it and didn't tell me which one was in it that I could tell a difference. I will keep running it now that I have it for sure though.

The Palmetto will come with a standard mil-spec trigger. Gritty and heavy pull but should save enough that its not going to be a difficult decision to replace it.

We all know that you can't build one upper and have everyone praise it as perfect. A few options on 2-3 different components let you reach a broader range of customers wants and still not have to have a massive inventory to eat all the profits. 2 years ago I bought my first upper to shoot 3 gun. After a little research I bought a large manufacturer's 3 gun upper and stuck it on the lower I assembled for my first ar. From the get go I wasn't all that happy with it but it got me to shooting matches. Did a lot more research, discovered BE, bought an upper from a vendor here and sold the first upper. The two uppers were priced within $60 of each other. Now I focus on spending money on ammo not my rifle.

That looks a lot like what I was planning out on paper. I just want to use the aluminium or polymer shroud to save a few bucks. Having never owned a semi auto shotgun much less run one in 3 gun, seems to me the extended shell release that MOA does would be a worthwhile option. I'm I wrong on that or does it just come down to the manual of arms one learns when they first start using the gun?

You have my attention.

The Stretch 16 interests me because I've been thinking I would like a 16" barrel for shooting Tac scope. The intermediate gas system length on a 16" barrel is something I've wondered why nobody made, it just makes sense to me. If the gas port is optimal sized to where an adjustable gas block isn't needed to run low mass parts even better. My two main uses for my ARs are 3 gun and shooting them suppressed. I'd rather have a smaller gas port then need to run a adjustable gas block. I also want a 1/8 twist and medium profile. Sounds like these barrels check all those boxes. Price isn't bad with gas block and gas tube included, I'd spend $80 to get my preferred setup that I run on my other barrel. $20 for a melonite barrel I will be more than happy to take the chance that it will do something for barrel life, if it doesn't I'll know the next time. My accuracy requirements are kinda lax, I don't have any real precision experience. Minute of prairie dog out to 300 yards is about all I care about for a .223 and for 3 gun that is more then I need so far. I'm a ways out from starting this project but I'm happy to have all the info I can have access to about this barrel or any set up similar to it.

Knock them down and away for sure. Smaller margin of error for sights off target but easier to avoid the no shoots. I followed the advice in Pat's article, screwed a light mod in, and didn't find a need to take it out last year.