pskys2

Your crimp sounds right. I have ran into this a few times. Some set back is normal when your round hits the feedramp, which it usually does. Make sure you are using a good quality Sizing Die, Dillons works good. If your sizing die is oversize it will not provide the friction needed and you can have extensive setback. Does this happen on the first round or all rounds? On a Slide Lock loading? If you're worried you can try the following: Measure 4 rounds (record the exact measurements) then load all 4 into a magazine. Use a marker to write 1-4 on the case head and match those numbers with your measurements. Then chamber your first round by grasping the slide and pulling it all the way back and releasing it. Then rack the next one into the chamber. Fire the 2nd round and allow the 3rd round to be cycled into the gun. Remove the Magazine, eject the 3rd round and pull the 4th round from the Magazine (without it having been cycled). Now measure rounds 1, 3 and 4. #1 will probably be the shortest (.005 isn't bad at all). #3 may be a little short, but probably not by much. #4 should be the same as the original measurement. If this is what happens, don't sweat it. If #1 is shorter than .010, check your magazines for weak springs, bad followers, dirty, etc... If #2 is as short as #1 you may have a worn Mag Release, incorrectly installed barrel, or a bad magazine. I don't know what the limits are, but a little set back seems normal. Your crimp sounds ok, unless at any point you can rotate the bullet in the case, then you may need to check your measuring tools. Too much crimp can be worse than not enough. Note, that when you load on a progressive, overall length will vary. I.E. there is usually a .005 difference in length if there is no case being sized, or if the case is new and not providing friction. If the case in the sizing die is bulged, or real hard to work, you can get .005 longer overall length. I always record my overall length off of the 3rd or 4th case ejected from my Dillon. Setting up the first one I usually try to make them about .005 shorter than I want. Now if you still have concerns, I'm sure someone can come up with some more ideas. Then again, if it works, is accurate and nothing else is acting up Shoot It Now and worry later.

As you shoot .45acp brass it will shorten. New is usually .898, 1x goes .892, X+ .885 (sometimes less). The shorter it gets the further from the taper crimp. The taper crimp usually works best at .470 or less, can start having problems under .465. Try setting your die to give you .470 on the old brass, then run a new case through and it will probably be about .468. Both should then work fine. Lead is more forgiving as long as you bell the case mouth enough (which it doesn't sound like). Try belling the case mouth on the older brass just enough to not shave lead, then run a new case through and it shouldn't bell so much that it won't fit into the next station. Jacketed bullets can be crimped too much and they will get loose in the case. Again .468-.470 seems to be best.

Why not just change L10 to L8? Then run what you brung. A Holster Rule change wouldn't be out of the question, but don't know if it actually makes that big of a difference. You can get fairly cheap Blade Tech Holsters adjustable for rake and the existing Rule allows the 8 shot Revo guys to keep their FMC on the front. Leaving Open, Limited, Production and Revolver alone and just changing L10 to L8 may be the best of all. Dave

Here's one for you: At the Sunflower Classic I ran a 50 yard+ field/track meet course. 1 Door Activated Clamshell and 17 other open targets with the closest at 5 yards, furthest 10 yards. Pretty much a runnin' hose fest, but you'd be surprised at the number of competitors who Mike'd a 10 yard target after several 5 yarders. Anyway, I had a Son, then the father shoot Open Class one right after the other. The Son was young and FASSST, hosed through in 20.76 seconds and left me winded (but he never got away from me). The Father was quick and SMOOOTH, he never really stopped and I kept up well the time, you guessed it 20.76. BTW Son edged Dad by a couple of points. Kind of cool.

No Pillory, chain him to a large heavy prop and make him ro a stand and shoot course all day. With his BIG STICK just out of reach, and of course being used as part of the course. DQ him on his last course so he gets to unload that honking big stick. Oh, also like Jake's idea. Maybe make that the start signal to the course?

If you drew when the RO was talking of the LAMR command to someone else, and NOBODY was downrange. Then if I was on the Arbitration Committee, I would rule in your favor. If however you did it and someone was downrange, it's your ultimate responsibility to not do it. And you probably wouldn't win an Arbitration. I have a tendency to run a quick range. But, I am paranoid of someone being downrange, and act accordingly. When safety is the issue, there is never any rush. As a competitor, I always look downrange and check for others. Unfortunately there are times when you can't see everything, but you must try. Dave

Sounds like this competitor needs a "Safety Lesson" that only a DQ can provide. The RO did a disservice to everyone on this. Being a Good Guy isn't the same as being "Easy". We all hate to DQ someone, but when a competitor pulls his firearm without the RO's express command it is a sign of more serious problems to come. With someone down range it is impermissable. No Questions. You can't be "forgiving" on this. I've had RO's give the LAMR command with people downrange, but since I try to see what is going on, I pointed it out to them and refused the command. If the RO had given the command, and the competitor followed it, shame on them both (but it does happen). But to assume the command is coming, ignore the activity downrange and draw your firearm without RO approval. Well that competitor isn't aware (has nothing to do with experience) of what's going on and most likely has a "Me" complex that will only get worse. What would I have done, I would have yelled at the RO/Shooter that I'm still down range and then pull the RO aside at that time and gently questioned his action, with a recommendation of the proper action. If he didn't, then I would mention it to the RM and Club President (or Officer available). No need to get in a screaming match, but sometimes an easy RO only needs a little backing to do the right thing. It is easy to get wrapped up in this being a "Game" and forget that it is a potential "DEADLY" Game! A firearm pointed at me will always get a response of some kind. You don't have to be a Range Nazi, but everyone on the range depends on the RO for their safety. Dave

Maybe even include it in the Point Series. I first thought that it would add a layer of BS. But, after really thinking of it, and seeing the difficulty in prize aquisition, it may add a reason (other than FUN) to drive to and shoot some Trophy only, low fee matches. Hey Bill let's keep after CCPS, maybe they'll give in next year. Either way, it was a grueling 2 days and lots of fun. Just wish I could have shot WITH all the other Revo's. Really upset with myself for not getting a group Picture of us Hardcore IPSC Revo shooters, though! Congrats Mike, you shot a good match. Of course I should have penalized you on "Dirty Harry" (the one I ran and ran and ran,..."Wheeeez") for all the FMC's that flew by me on your run. Course most of them flew in front of you, funny how they can outrun you when the fly off your belt. I was mightily impressed when you didn't let it faze you. It looked like shrapnel flying by (you must have had 4 or 5 of them come out). Luckily you had just enough to finish. I had one guy who lost his "Big Stick" and couldn't engage the last targets completely. And half a dozen others who also lost their mags. And Everyone was Panting at the end of that course! I may donate a couple of the Caddies to the Area 3 also. Looking forward to the Area 3, hope Sam doesn't run and shoot as fast as you shoot, or we'll both be in trouble. Dave

P.S. I may be a sick, twisted individual but I would definitely shoot my 625. Probably with Major loads. But then that's just me. Dave

Use Steel Challenge type Steel (no resetting), give the RO a clicker and count the misses (or be sadistic and count the hits). Only 2 Gun Bearers per shooter, to pick up clips or mags and reload mags if needed (coaching would add a click to the misses, he! he!). Use a pouch of some kind for the extra ammo, and sling it around your neck. No Major/Minor and make it a Jungle Run. Sounds warped, but the "!WOW!" factor would make it a hit. Dave

CCPS doesn't post the stages anywhere, but we will be setting them up on Friday. See my post of last week, I gave a description of what they plan, don't know if it will stand up to reality. The single hardest course, for a Revo, will be the Standard type which is a 24 second time limit at 4 Classic Targets at 15 yards, NO Mandatory Reloads. Makes the reload we must do, critical. The rest have a few activated targets. If past history is any indication the targets will be close with few really hard shots. Dave

Last I heard they weren't full yet. But, the Entry stops applications after May 1. Fill it out, send it in and hopefully you won't have a problem. Are you in this area? Want to come down and help set up on Friday. Probably would get you a spot if you do, ha! ha! ha! Dave

Myself (Dave Williams), Scott Ross and Mike Widebrook will all be shooting Revolver. The organizers promised me they will recognize Revolver with an award. And I am donating a Moon Caddie as a prize in Revolver. They are a fully enclosed wood box that holds 30 Full Moon Clips (180 rounds), check the attachment. They don't post the Courses, but from what I've heard there is only 1 short (12 rd) course that is screwed up for a Revolver. I will be there on Friday setting up and shooting, so maybe I can have some input. Here is the breakdown: (all subject to change though) 36 rd field course, close/open hoser type 36 rd field course, memory course (easier on us memory challenged ones, though) 17 rd field course, some action targets 17 rd field course, all steel 12 rd speed course, Revolver unfriendly at this time 22 rd field course, several action targets 48 rd fixed time course, freestyle (Revo will be good to get 24 rounds in) Now since the Theme is "Clint Eastwood Movies", do I shoot my 5" PC625 with an Apex 5 1/2# Action Job, or the 4" M29 with 6 1/2# Clark Action Job? Both use Full Moon Clips. I love the way the .44 feels, but the .45 shoots/handles so well. Actually the M29 is 1 ounce heavier than the 625. Decisions, Decisions! If only I had a 6 1/2" M29! Whichever, I'M READY TO "MAKE MY DAY!" Side note: Millcreek is hosting the Area 3, and they are having their monthly match this Saturday morning(need to be there by 9am). Some of you Ia guys want to come down and get a feel for the Range? I should be there shooting Revo.

Eliminate Limited 10 (fyi I've shot L10 exclusively for the past several years though I've graduated, hmm gravitated, to Revolver now). AND Change Production to: Allow 1911's and other Single Action firearms. Minimum Trigger Pull 4# (helps equalize popular real world self defense recommended Single Action trigger pull and slicked up Double Action and Safe Action pulls). 8 round limit in pistol. not magazine if claiming Major (8 round Revo ok, factory 1911 7 round w/1 in chamber ok, btw I've always hated the way a 1911 looks with a 10 round stick, though I used them religiously). 10 round limit if claiming Minor. Allow .357 Mag/.38 Super as Major. Iron Sights Limit Modifications as per Production. Use Production Holster rules with no restriction on mag/speedloader/clip pouch placement. Is this workable? It would shorten the list of divisions, keep production "in the spirit?" Add more work to the RO's (checking trigger pulls, counting rounds, etc...), make less work for Stats (fewer Divisions). Or would it be better to leave it all alone? Open - Hair on Fire with Optics Limited - Balls to the Walls with Iron Sights Production - What a factory will produce Revolver - The poor Stepchild with no place to go (but it's still fun) Sometimes it's good to throw Fertilizer in the pasture and see what grows. Ohhh! I'm getting a headache, gotta go home and get a whiff of gunsmoke to clear the head. Dave

Randy Lee of Apex Tactical does wonders with a 625. 4 1/2 pounds before breaking in. Quick turnaround too. Dave

Ditch the Magnum Primers. I've used half a dozen different brands of 200 lswc, from Precision (Best) to old Bull-x, 4.2 clays will give 840 f/s unless your barrel is box stock. If you're unsure bump it up to 4.3 or 4.4. Use a Scale (Electronic or Mechanical) to be sure. But, the Magnum Primers will usually increase pressures and increase the Velocity Spread, but not the Average Velocity.

"AHH, Back in the day............. In the early 90's with Comped, Iron Sighted Autos, one of the tricks with shok buffs was to add 1 or 2 extra to change the cycle stroke. Kind of fine tuned the front sight positioning (yea it took a while for everyone to go to optics). Did it work? It seemed too, at the time. But, maybe that had to do with all the practice trying to check it out. It seemed to loose traction when everyone started going to the Big Dots. And non-comped guns never seemed to benefit from such fine tuning. The guys who shot PPC, NRA Bullseye and such hated Shok Buffs, said they would screw up the feeding cycle. Rarely seemed to happen though. Think they just didn't like change. And that is almost a polar opposite to an "IPSCer". Check it out thoroughly, Practice till it feels right and then Do what Works.

I too have had trouble with Miculek grips. My fingers are a little shorter than normal, but the palm is average. This left the thumb base knuckle at the edge of the grips. To the point that I opened up a 1/4" gash in the thumb (guess you shouldn't work up loads and wring out a new gun after a long winter with little or no shooting possible, had 3 weeks of 1" ICE on everything, brrrrrr). Tried taking off the left side upper support. Helped for a while, then just opened the thumb up 1/4" lower. Tried moving my hand further around, both ways. Nothing felt, or shot, right. Tried modified Hogue grips and they helped, but they have handling problems too, occassional cartridge (not bullet) hitting the rubber and doing flips. Finally added more skateboard tape, pretty much wraps the grip below the first finger. Seems to hold the gun better to my hand. Translating into less slamming, torque and I think thats what causes the pounding on the thumb. I don't like to shift the gun much as I draw. I seem to do better just concentraing on the first shot and letting recoil do it's work adjusting my grip. Actually seems the higher I grip the Revo the more it pounds on the thumb. Can only imagine the callus at Miculek's thumb joint. His grips feel good, handle good but I wish they offered them checkered.

Mike, while at the 2004 Area 3 I queried Miculek as to why he wasn't shooting one of the PC625's he helped Smith & Wesson design. He said he liked the heavier weight of the stock 5" for recoil control. BUT, he said he had been asking Smith & Wesson for a production 625 (PC or not he didn't say) with 6" barrel, and I assume a heavy underlug. Don't think he was having any luck, but maybe if Revo shooters started emailing Smith (maybe Jerry?) with requests like that, who knows? Dave

COF I here you. Is there a "Born Again" column? At 16 bought and sold Revolvers like no tommorrow, Had a single 1911 compared to 10 Revo's. Even had a 3 1/2" M27 and a converted m1917 (to 45 Colt, the long one). Still have a M28. Then in the late 70's found Combat Shooting, and it was Heads Up only, started reading Cooper and was lured into the chapel of Bottomfeeders by the siren of competition. Occassionally pulled out the M28 and shot a local match. Went to the Nationals 3 times, Bianchi Cup once and made Master (before the advent of GM) with a HiCap/Comped/Iron Sighted Bottomfeeder (after optics became hot). Became SC, Gun Club President then Burnt out, dropped out and spaced out for 5 years. Came back with Ltd 10, shot a little Revo with the M28 but no big matches and I could never "Win" against the bottomfeeder courses. Finally, said "to heck with it" and bought a fine looking M29 4" had a FMC conversion and Action Job and started concentrating on Revo. Now have a PC625 and am trying to wean myself from the lure of the bottomfeeding/chain gun shell arching/hair on fire/cloud of dust match rush of the auto. I have always !!LOVED REVOLVERS!! There I've said it, and I feel better. But, the lure of competition she's a sweet one and she still calls. Then there's the rush of a great course, with the Cylinder whirring and the reloads flying and the faces of the bottomfeeders vanquished that day. Must find our simple pleasures where we can.

All posts have good insite, but my .02 is it's the sizzle. Most who shoot IPSC have "hot dog" tendencies (myself included). We drive too fast, shoot too fast and I'm told talk too fast (at least before the brain is engaged). It's the seductive siren of speed. Most want to shoot a fast time, and it's easier with a bottom feeder. Combine it with courses that have fairly high miss factors (makeup shots required) leaving a Revo shooter standing and fumbling and it just "FEELS" better to be quicker reloading after missing that last plate with an auto than a Revo. Part of this was the original concept of IPSC, everyone competes against everyone, heads up. That led me to worship at the shrine of the hicap, comped, scoped thunderstick. Then burn out led to downsizing, first Limited then Limited 10. Now it's Revo, but I ALWAYS loved shooting a Revo, it just wasn't competitive. I don't really care now, I'm not out to make a name, or earn bucks. Just have fun. Now the solution? We need to make it sizszle! For the average guy. How to do that I don't know. Probalby start locally, maybe let a few shooters run through a course with a slicked up Revo. Maybe we need a minimum Pull Weight, you know down to basics. Just got my 625 back from Randy Lee. Man the pull is unbelievalbe, it's going to give me a complex. I just know I can shoot faster now than I will be. I may have to jack the weight up, just for my sanity. But then even the PC625 with a Lee Job is less than an off the shelf Kimber SS Competition model. Sorry for the rambling, it's slow today. Dave

We now have 4 committals (committed's?) for Revo. I am confident we will have 5 and the organizers will give a placque. I will donate a FMC Ammo Box for the High Revolver. Anyone who has sent in their Apps, please send an email to CCPS and let them know you want to shoot Revolver. I will be working, shooting on Friday, so look me up. Dave

Including you, I have 3 definites and 2 maybes. CCPS said with 5 they will give a placque, and I am still going to donate a prize for High Revolver. Dave

I'll start a new topic. The CCPS is hosting the "Sunflower Classic" May 20-21. It's only an "Approved" Match, but they usually give out a couple of Pistols and anything else by Raffle. The website is: http://www.capitalcitygunclub.com/pistol/r...s/SFCentry.html They are "NOT" recognizing Revolver at this time. But, if we can get 5, or more, entries with Revolver wrote into the Division i.e. (Ltd10-Revolver) then I may get them to add a placque. Regardless, if we do have 5, I will donate a prize (maybe with a placque attached) specifically for High Revolver. It's a fun match at a low fee (lunch usually provided). Dave

I'm shooting Revolver, even though I may have to register in L10. Since it is a Placque Match, with prizes by Raffle, what's to lose. It's more important to me to get ready for the Area 3, where I will also shoot a Revolver. There are a few guys in KC that shoot Revo every once in a while, I'll try to drop them a line. Dave