pskys2

As I said, I use Titegroup in my m29 with 44 russians and a 1911 45 with no problems, though the guns do get hotter quicker than with most other powders. It has something to do with the Stainless of the 625. It would start intermittent dragging after about 100 rounds. And I do clean with a Bore Snake, Chamber Brush and a Stainless Lead Wipe after every practice session. Played with it all summer before finally switching back to Clays. Kroil would gradually dissolve it, but still had to work on it a while. 45 230gr Ranier RN with 4.5 Titegroup a F150 primer gave 750 f/s out of the 5" PC625. Just reporting what I've found after using up 6 lbs. of Titegroup this summer and about 4 lbs. of Clays. Dave

It's the Titegroup powder. I've had the very same problem with Lead, Moly, Ranier's, and FMJ (exposed base). It's definitely worse if there is lead of any kind exposed to the powder charge. I haven't tried the Montana Gold CMJ's extensively, they didn't seem too bad in 100 rounds. I was having your problem and also thought it was bent clips. Then I noticed the caking of residue on the Recoil Shield of my 625 wouldn't wipe off even with a Stainless Lead Cloth Wipe. It had to be chipped off. Clays residue wipes off with a normal rag, or even a finger. Curiously my m29 that I use with .44 Russians doesn't have that problem, or at least it doesn't show up as quick. Though it also gets real hot with extended firing (see below). I think it has to do with the composition of the powder and the intensity of the flame bonding with the slightly rougher texture of the Stainless. I also noticed this summer that at the end of a long field course (24+Rounds) the barrel would be so hot I couldn't touch it. During practice I'd have to stop and let it cool if I wanted to practice reloads. So even though Titegroup seems a bit more accurate than clays, I won't use it in my 625 anymore, for matches at least. Dave

At our small local club here in the Great Plains of the US it seemed that some of our "USPSA" competitors thought it was a waste. The Officers wanted to do away with L10, but shooters said no. Just run all of 'em, it doesn't cost anything (we don't give out placques at our monthly matches). The bigger yearly match is a different story and will depend on whether there are 5, or more. Out of 10 shooters at the meeting it seemed to me that 3 thought it was a waste, 3 thought it was a good idea and the rest didn't think. I think it's going to be bigger as a "SPECIAL MATCH" thing than as a Division. But, that's just my .02.

Dillon sells some stuff called "Snake Oil" and it tends to stick better than Rem-Oil. I use it on Pins, Sear, Rebound Slide and just lightly coat the Crane. But, I keep Rem-Oil in my bag as it flows easier, especially if the temps get below 40. I've also happily used Rem-Oil alone if I don't have any Snake Oil. I have a RLee 4# Action Job and it shows up pretty quick if you have too heavy weight of lube. Tried SG Lite and it slowed down the Rebound too much with the RLee action. With the Clark 7# it doesn't seem to matter as much. Dave

Most likely your current Freezing of the Trigger is caused by thinking about it. It is invaribly caused by too much tension in the shooting hand. If you grip the gun too tightly, you will have trigger freeze, your splits will be longer and your hits will be further apart. I've run into trigger freeze from trying to shoot fast. I always ended up trying to muscle the gun out of recoil faster and faster and faster, it's a never ending cycle. After reading Brians book, I was finally able to realize what the problem was and correct it. Yet, I'll slip back into bad habits while practicing heavily. I have to constantly tell myself to "RELAX". And usually the little voice in my head is screaming it, real effective right? Try taking a break and have fun. The pressure we put on ourselves is what causes problems in our performance. Dave

Larry was deifinitely "HIS OWN MAN". You always knew where he stood on an issue, and it was always insiteful. Uspsa, Ipsc and all of us collectively have lost a True Friend and Sportsman.

Bubber on a 30 round field course at 85% = about 5 shots outside of the A. If you are good and get C's then your still down 10 points, acceptable. But, if you shoot D's your now down 20 points. With the emphasis on Speed Field Courses with HF of 6 or better, well with a 15 second course you'd have to make up 2 whole seconds. Course 1 flubbed reload eats that pretty quick. All I have is 6 shot Revolvers and I don't ever try to shoot slow enough to get all A's, and if I do try I usually jerk one because my timing is off. So, while I don't spray and pray, I definitely try to shoot "Pumped Up". I wouldn't trade up to an 8 shot to shoot minor, and after shooting my .357 vs .45, both at major, I don't think I'd want to shoot Major with an 8 shot. In the days of old I always liked the rivalry caused by major/minor and capacity. It led to a lot of good natured ribbing, especialy if a "Minor" guy won. The more I think on it the better I like it. As for Vents, etc... they would have to shoot Minor, to reduce their advantage. Dots are a different story and course design can play a huge role. Dots would be a big advantage but I don't think they fit into the "Mystic" of IPSC Revolver. The down side of doing this officially would be the Classifier System. With the round counts of many of the Classifiers, I would guess there would be an increase in some shooters classification scores, that wouldn't necessarily translate to performance at bigger matches. Mike I say try it at your Revo Match, I'll try to be there. If the Sunflower doesn't go "Sectional" I'm going to try to sell it there. Either way I'm up for trying to get some Revo squads going at the Area and Sectionals this year. Dave

While a bobbed hammer does allow a faster locktime, less movement possible while bullet is exiting (1911 guys go to extremes on this, I've been there), I actually meant faster hammer strike. Randy Lee's work seems to prove that a lighter, faster hammer strike gives better ignition than a heavy and slow hammer stirke. I had my doubts until I tried it. I can actually back off the mainspring weight to a pull of under 3 1/2# before I get misfires with my R Lee hammerless light weight 4# action. While the Clark 7# action job with standard hammer can't be backed off at all, or I get misfires. BTW the Clark 7# action is on a 4" M29 with moon clip conversion. It's a really neat setup, but the 625 allows more consistant reloads and more readily availabe components.

If you go to the trouble of Bobbing the Hammer, for faster locktime which allows a lighter Action Job, then put an overtravel stop in the Trigger. Then screw it in so you CAN'T shoot it SA. That way you won't accidentally "Cock" the hammer and have to fumble it back down. Removing the SA this way also seems to reduce vertical stringing at different "Speeds". As the Overtravel is more consistent. That could all be in my head, too. I have a Clark Action w/hammer spur that is very good at 7#. My Lee Action w/no spur is great at 4#. I like having a hammer spur, but the 4# Action is just too good not to use. And as Spook says occassionaly the Spur can hit your hand.

CCPS in Topeka, KS. has a monthly club match on the 3rd Sunday of each month. We shoot 3+ Courses (usually Field Courses) each match. Is anyone interested in bringing out their 7 or 8 shot Revolvers, w or w/out comps, and competing as Minor in Revolver. I could probably sell it as being ok, as long as there's no classifiers shot. I guarantee it doesn't bother me (I have only Big Bore 6 shooters). We are located about an hour west of KC, so I know the area has limited known competitors. Are there any out there who don't compete regularly? Bullseye, PPC, Bianchi, Pins? Since they usually do a Special Classifier 2x/yr (March and August) there should be plenty of opportunity. If anyone's interested let me know. Dave

Guys, the areas I would like to see hit on in this thread are: 1) Matches, ways to promote Revolver participation. 2) Rules, ways to increase member participation. The Fun/Nice Guy stuff is almost a given for Revolver Shooters (though I've been known to get a bit testy at times) so I don't think we can improve on that much here. But, those 2 areas above have to be done at an authority level, and some here may be able to push it better than others. I brought up earlier the allowing of 7+ shot Revolvers by allowing them only minor, how about vented barrels at Minor Only? Minor doesn't give much advantage to a comp. I don't have either and so can't do any comparison work. I don't think Optics will have a place in this division for some time, as it stands now. What I'm thinking of is opening up Revolver and yet keeping it competitive. For instance Carmoney and I shot it out 2x with Revo this year, he beat me by around 7% each time. We both shot 45 S&W Revolvers. Would his % have been higher, lower, if he had shot an 8 shot .38 in Minor? Or would that give an advantage that would lead to an equipment race? Matches, locally with no Classifiers we could convince our clubs to let us play with this. Bigger Non-Sanctioned Matches could do this also. USPSA won't, and shouldn't, entertain this idea if we don't have some statistical evidence to support it. But, then if it doesn't actually help participation then it's not needed, either. There is Carmoney's Iowa Match, Hops Southern Match and maybe the Kansas Sunflower Classic (if it doesn't go Sectional) that could all be used as test beds, with a little help from some of us. If anyone has any experience in this, or if your club tries it, get back with us here and let us know if it helps. Dave

To measure Hammer Fall on a Revolver. I use a RCBS Trigger Gauge (NOT Digital so this may not work). But, the principal should be the same. Unload the Revolver. If the SA is still workable (I adjust the Trigger Stop so it's not which makes it a little tougher to do, but it is still can be done) cock the hammer. Put the leg of the arm of the Trigger Measure on the hammer nose below the firing pin (or if frame mounted FP on the cut out below the part of the hammer that hits the FP). Hold Revolver steady and Trigger Gauge square with barrel. Pull Trigger while holding back on the Trigger Gauge. Trigger must be held back or it will affect the weight measured. Ease up on the Trigger Gauge and read weight when Hammer starts moving forward. For an Electronic Gauge try putting the Revolver in a vise. Then holding the Trigger back and the gauge installed as above, hold the Hammer just after it starts to fall and gradually release it while holding and reading the gauge. Sounds like you need 3 hands. Try a piece of Electric Wire (Insulated of course) wrapped around the trigger. Remember the Trigger must be held back so that it doesn't affect the hammer. You want to measure only the hammer. Another idea, take out the trigger. Leave in the Hammer and Main spring then measure it that way. Dave

Not to "Dissss" Randy Lee's work, but since I have one (and it's GREAAAAAAAAAAAT!) I almost hate letting anyone try it for fear they will think they need that extra to get started. But to date I've had my best Classifier Scores with a 7# Clark M29. I do think it was me, not the gun though that made the difference. WIth that in mind, would a DA Trigger Pull Limit be helpful, if so what? My 625 RLee is 4# and hasn't skipped a beat. My 29 Clark is 7# and also doesn't fail. My 28 just has a spring kit and is a little over 8#, but I haven't played with it much. I do notice a difference when practicing, but in the heat of competition I don't notice it much. But, like the Comps of old for a .45, it allows you a little extra fudge factor. You can get away with being a little sloppier, pushing a little closer to the edge without slicing off a hunk of pride. Dave

What if a match was to use the following addendums to the USPSA Rules? 6 shot Revolvers scored Major/Minor (if loaded there) 7+ shot Revolvers scored Minor (regardless of caliber) but allowed to compete Think that might entice a few more shooters? Discourage shooters based on gaming courses? Kind of brings us back to the olden days before we started hot rodding the Super. You know where you either had a 7 or 8 shot .45 vs. 9 or 13 shot 9mm. I wouldn't mind competing against a "Minor" 8 shot Revo, regardless of course design. Since the 8 shots are .357/.38 Super it's not that far out of line. If we try it and it seems equitable, maybe we could get USPSA to make a change. Dave

Great Idea, sounds liike fun. But, how about before the Area 3 in June? Another idea I was going to post in the Revo Participation thread, how about the following: 6 shot Revolvers scored Major/Minor (if loaded there) 7+ shot Revolvers scored Minor (regardless of caliber) Think that might entice a few more shooters? Kind of brings us back to the olden days before we started hot rodding the Super. You know where you either had a 7 or 8 shot .45 vs. 9 or 13 shot 9mm. I wouldn't mind competing against a "Minor" 8 shot Revo, regardless of course design. Since the 8 shots are .357/.38 Super it's not that far out of line. If we try it and it seems equitable, maybe we could get USPSA to make a change. In Topeka if the Sunflower doesn't go "Sectional", I will try to get the club here to do it. Dave

I guess the first thing for us to do is "BE HAPPY", don't moan over the courses (I'm trying to stop it), show enthusiasm and as Patrick said don't be a curmodgeon. Then as Hop and Mike have done get out the word on matches. Last year I actually gave out a specific prize for the High Revo at our yearly Match. May have to do something like that again this year. Most importantly get involved in the Organization and MD side, then kindly push Revo. I liked, for the short term, Mikes idea of equal payout for "ALL" divisions. Encourage gamesmanship, what the heck if a local GM shoots revo and takes the prize maybe others will follow. Or once they try it, thinking they'll win something because they don't think there will be much competition, they'll get hooked. But, that's why I say it's short term as sooner or later that type of thing can leave a sour feeling to the average guy. And it will be a hard sell to any club having a big match. Try setting up a match that starts with a Revo. Let others use your Great Revo, while you use a stock one. Maybe a "Point Series" type match in a local area? For instance here in Area 3 we could have 3 Sectionals, an Area Champs and a couple of "other" matches. All centered in Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri and Kansas. Ideas Mike? Do we "HAVE" to go through USPSA, or do it in conjunction with USPSA? Dave

After seeing the depth of feeling on another thread when it was rumored that USPSA might be thinking of eliminating the Revolver Division, I thought maybe we should try to channel that energy into something useful. So, what do we do to increase participation? What's worked in other Divisions? What hasn't worked? Dave

Personally I don't like Reality Shows, my life has enough Reality as it is. Further, I enjoy shooting. Whatever the venue. USPSA just has more of a rush involved. I can always find somebodies Butt to Kick (MY OWN!) That's who I really want to beat each and every time I shoot. It just seems my evil conscious twin usually wins out. But then if he didn't I would never feel the desire to practice. And heck that's half the fun. Maybe we all need to step back, take a deep breath and, for those of us in the US, thank the lord that we live in a country where we Still Can Shoot Anything (pretty much) we want! And just about at any time. It doesn't look like there is any official move to dissolve Revolver Division and I like having many divisions, classes and categories. Prizes are ok whether by drawing or place, but placques are great too. As long as I can shoot and have fun I don't care. Maybe a new thread on ideas to increase Revolver interest would be in order? The best way to insure the Revolver Division is to get interest up. Dave

Mike, announcing in advance a straight % per division is an interesting and fresh approach that may work in the short term. Actually encoraging "Gaming", novel and interesting concept, talk your guys into doing that at their '06 Sectional. Bgary, try this on; Open: Anything goes, drag it up and it works. Limited: No Comps or Scopes. Production: 6 shot limits in firearm to start and in mags or cylinders, Major/Minor, Production Quotas, limited modifications and "ALL" types eligible. Production was originally intended as a "Newbie" division, though I never believed it would stay that. But, if you now want to streamline the divisions why eliminate SA autos from the division anymore? Where is it written that you can't beat a SA Auto with a Safe Action? Sure it may be harder for the average guy, but heck some are saying Revolvers should compete against Safe Action Production Autos. Personally I'd like to see Open, Limited, Production (with Major/Minor and SA 1911 Autos allowed) and Revolver. Those 4 divisions seem to cover about every firearm type equitably, except SA Revolvers and I don't have a clue what to say about them. Though in 1978 all I had was a Ruger .45 Blackhawk and I was tempted to shoot a combat match with it, spent a few nights trying to figure out how to speed load a Blackhawk with a 1911 mag (really with a .45acp cylinder I did try it). I still had dreams (nightmares?) of doing it for kicks in the 1980's while waiting on a gunsmith, but was saved by local Cowboy Combat Matches (pre-SASS). Hey, I was young and poor and didn't have any spare guns. Oh, for the simple old days, when we had so few choices. A hi cap was a minor caliber Hi-Power and Revolver shooters were new guys easily beat, we had few moving targets and heck many a match was just a track meet. Really, it's not perfect but it's better now than ever. Dave P.S. My AD also said there's been no official talk of this, so that makes 3 AD's Hop, and Val from USPSA said they hadn't heard of anything either. But, it never hurts to make the wheel squeak a bit either.

Well, let's see USPSA has a "NEW" provisional division that requires a "SPECIFIC" model of firearm. And they want to eliminate a division for a whole "TYPE" of handgun. This makes a lot of sense. Maybe they are trying to attract IDPA shooters by imitating the worst side of IDPA. Guess it might make them feel at home. Would hope the USPSA board would see the angst caused by recent IDPA Equipment Rule changes. But, then back in the 90's I didn't like the idea of "Sponsored" shooters and big prize tables corrupting our sport. It lead to some ugly moments and almost killed the sport. That monsters head is still there, it's just been dormant due to IDPA (which it helped to create). It was only by branching out with different Divisions that the trend was reversed. And as for classes, they have a legitimate purpose. The classes should be left alone. The Divisions could benefit from tweaking, but not "ELIMINATING" a whole Type of handgun. Hop start a new thread on Adjusting Divisions. And everyone contact your AD and Voight! Dave

Read "The Inner Game of Tennis". Most GM's, to varying degrees, have learned to get out of their own way and let themselves shoot. The rest of us think too much. How many have had the experience of practicing real hard/heavy for a match, right up to the last minute. Then going out and not performing up to expectations. Yet, a month later in a more relaxed state doing what you had wanted to previously.

Ask the RO to move, then engage the target. The shooter would then be eligible for a reshoot, as he would have demonstrated the RO had caused interference with his run and the effect would be seen on the scoresheet. If you don't perform those actions, then you are at the mercy of the RO and/or an arbitration with a lot of "What Ifs". Dave

It depends.? It seems to me that most of "Snapping to the next target, and then moving the gun there" is actually Mental. It seems more about "Mentally" processing the shot, accepting or rectifying that shot and forgetting about it. THEN Moving to the next target, keeping your concentration on the the present target. Depending on the Target exposure, distance and/or props you may be able to use recoil to drive the gun, or not. The important thing is to "Drive the Mind to the Next Shot". If you think about it as you're doing it, you're probably losing time. At the top levels I would surmise the color of ones' shoelaces can be important, if it affects the competitors mental state. At the top level it is so tight (other than Revolver and Production where us mortals haven't figured out that gods do roam the earth!) that anything can help/hurt. But, for most of us it's more about being able to let ourselves perform. Pushing too hard only hurts. More importantly "HAVE FUN!" Dave

I've found that 1 or 2x fired brass to be more consistent in both accuracy and PF. Think it has to do with being "fire formed" to your chamber versus new brass which usually will have more to expand. The average "usually" comes out close to a few times fired, but sometimes not. Many times fired brass usually gives me lower PF and unless sorted, wider veloctiy variations. But an occasional load will give higher PF with old brass. Proably due to an undetected variable in loading. Powder lots, and age, can also impact velocity enough to change PF 5 or 6 points, depending on needed velocity. Of course Temperature, Humidity, Barometric Pressure, Sunlight/Cloud Cover will all make a difference. The only safe thing is to take many chrono readings at different times. Dave

Here goes (if you want more details send me an email address): 150 LSWC Behn (Fired in a 6" Accu Comp .45acp in the 1980's) 1230 Trap 100 7.50 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 1170 Trap 100 6.90 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 1180 231 7.40 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 152 LSWC National (Fired in a 5" Match Barrel .45acp over last 5 years) 989 WST 5.54 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1047 WST 6.00 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1112 WST 6.54 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1018 AA5 9.40 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1046 AA5 9.90 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1082 Bullseye 6.54 WLP Starline 1.250 0.470 Taper 1090 Bullseye 6.54 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.470 Taper 1134 WST 6.54 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.470 Taper 1120 WST 6.54 WLP Remington 1.250 0.470 Taper 816 WST 4.85 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.470 Taper 891 Clays 4.20 F150 Mixed 1.250 0.478 Taper 842 Clays 4.20 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 774 Clays 3.90 WLP Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 739 Clays 3.90 F150 Mixed 1.250 0.468 Taper 152 LSWC National (Fired in a 5 1/4" 625 .45acp this year) 809 Clays 4.00 F150 Remington 1.225 0.469 Taper 736 Titegroup 4.30 F150 Remington 1.225 0.469 Taper Accuracy is hit and miss, but never as good as a 200 LSWC. Probably average 3" @25yds, whereas the 200 LSWC averaged 1 1/2" @25yds. Out at 50 yards the spread usually seems to widen at a faster rate. Hope this helps, Dave