bikerburgess

apparently the bolded portion of my statement was hard to find or understand.

The WSB can state and mandate almost anything, there are very few limitations on it in the rules, even fewer at a level one match (not that, that would come into effect in this case) it can be used to make interesting stage procedures or horrible stages, it all comes down to how it is written. In this case it says I can't use my mag pouches so I can't use them, unfortunately for the stage designers intent(I hate that word) it did not say anything about pockets or magnets or stuffing them in your belt so all those would be fine just not the pouches.

How do you argue it? If it's not specifically listed as legal it's not.

To me there is a difference between a fun stage and a fun match. For strait up fun it's hard to beat a full on hoser stage, there is just something about going that fast while shooting that makes me smile. A match on the others needs to have balance, balance can be achieved with stages that test multiple skills or a combination of stages that each test one skill.

I shot a local with a 625 and a old Ithaca 12ga once, it was fun but not competitive. I keep contemplating shooting heavy metal at a major and using my 625, just haven't had the balls to do it yet.

for me I'm slower on close in stuff and more accurate on longer tighter shots. part of that is patience or lack there of on my part with the dot there is no information when the dot is out of the window so I end up waiting till its back to start pressing the trigger ( shoot a GLOCK) with Iron sights I can track the front sight up and down and start the trigger press earlier so the shot breaks as the front sight gets back to the center of the target. I am running a RMR and at 5 yd the lens is less than the height of the A zone I think sight with a larger lens I would pick up quite a bit of speed (I know with my C-More on my open gun I can find the dot significantly faster. that all said I'm sure with additional practice it will get better.

+1 I say keep it. We actually want people shooting CO to have CO guns versus showing up at a major match and deciding that there is too much heat in Production, so let's just shoot in CO; similar to what happens with Limited and L10. The requirement doesn't make sense in a regular division, "IF" the optic is an advantage then it will be a de facto requirement just like it is now in open (you can shoot anything in open but dots comps and big mags are pretty universal) Your argument would be like telling a L10 shooter they must shoot limited because their mags can hold more rounds. We have always restricted divisions by limiting performance enhancements not by mandating then

I had a discussion with another shooter that made an interesting point. The requirement for an optic makes sense in the short term to help determine actual interest in the division as envisioned, requiring the optic removed those just entering the division to get classified or earn a ribbon. Once the division is finalized and no longer provisional it would make sense to eliminate that requirement as there would no longer be the need to collect that type of data

I thought they weren't Production legal.OP is making a 9 Minor Open gun.But the first answer mentioned one on a production gun

Folks are missing the obvious.... A gun WITHOUT a DECOCKER is not designed to be carried with the hammer at halfcock. Why not? Why have a 1/2 cock position if it is not designed to be used In most guns the half cock notch is a safety encase the hammer slips of the full cock notch, that is it's function it's not supposed to be used as a intermediate position. On decocker CZs the notch is used but that is no do for all guns, I know decocker Tanfoglios drop the hammer all the way. Also the CZ shadows and pre B models do not have a FPB so to answer your earlier question yes there are guns on the approved list without FPB safeties.

My answer to this dilemma may or may not work for you. Shoot them all, heck bring gear for two or three divisions to a match and decide while you are standing in line to register, shoot one division on Saturday and a different gun and division on Sunday. Do whatever you think is fun, that's the whole point.

Last I checked most of us wear our guns just about 90° to our centerline, therefore no matter what easy we turn we have to turn the same amount to not break the 180. The guys that run their guns more on the appendix area actually have to turn less going away from the gun. What I think everyone is actually saying is turn into the gun so your body will block the ROs view making it hard to call drawing to early. Probably works great at locals but major matches will have a RO on the other side as well so if it's a problem for you they will find it at the worst time. All that said if I am engaging a target directly down range I turn on the gun it's just smoother for me especially with a surrender start. If I am engaging a target somewhat to the side of the start position I turn whatever way is shorter

I haven't tried with the 125 but with the 115 I could only get enough powder to fit to get to about 155 powder factor. I figured it was going to take about 17 gains to get to major with a 115 and loading to fit GLOCK mags I couldn't get enough in. I will say with the 15 ish grains I could fit it was super soft shooting. I have had pretty good luck with AA9 and Blue Dot both fill the case enough to support the bullet and prevent setback and both take large charges and make lots of gas for the comp. If no comp they do make a pretty impressive fire ball

It all depends on the person and the gun involved.

A couple quick (bad) pictures of mine. I have not had any problems with it, I did need to extend the lifter when I started opening up the front of the port because my thumb started getting caught. It's ugly but last I checked pretty doesn't make my scores better. I know it makes loading faster for me, and I think it's pretty universal because I had a squad mate grab my gun by mistake off the preload table and he said he knew something was wrong when he went to load and the shells went in too easy.

115 JHP Montana gold over 10.5 grains Blue Dot 125 JHP Montana gold SIG profile over 12. grains AA9 I like both of these from my own gun, they are pretty unpleasant from my stock G31 I also ran long shot with the 115s but it didn't work the comp as well as the others. The blue dot load ran super clean, after about 3000 rd the comp had no build up in it.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge the frames are not sold separately, do you will need to buy a whole gun unless you find a used one.

See you at the Croc next year Right

Yes, and on a GLOCK you are only required to have 7 GLOCK parts, and curious had said a ruling is coming that will drop that to 6. Frame (can be stippled or tapped or glue and grit) Slide Trigger Trigger safety Slide stop Slide cover plate Magazine release That's it, every other part can be changed to aftermarket. The last one is supposed to be going away but no running has been published do it is still required

I would say if whatever you did doesn't look like a flush plug as allowed in the ruling dated 9-17-15 and appears to be something other than normal wear I would move you to open. But hey I would also have moved you to open for having a grip plug between February 2014 and September 17 2015 because that's what the rules said

My personal favorite overlooked rule is in appendix D4 22 Specifically prohibited modifications and features Please note that the absence of an item in the list of prohibited modifications MAY NOT be construed to mean a modification is allowed. A modification is only allowed in Production Division if there is a rules clause or interpretation which specifically declares that it is allowed in the Division. Removing or disabling firing-pin blocks or any other factory safety mechanism in Production division is specifically prohibited. Basically it says if it wasn't OK in D4- 21 then its not, and here is a useless incomplete list of items that are not. Personal rant. If you have a rule saying if its not listed as legal its not, having a list of illegal modifications is not only useless its misleading, So basically looking to D4-22 to see if something is legal does you no good, if it is listed there or not it makes no difference, unless it is listed somewhere as specifically allowed it is not.

so you made it a frame mounted safety gun? not trying to argue, just curious.

have to ask what in the trigger job makes it not production legal? the only thing I can think of is a trigger from a Tanfoglio

The problem is 90+% of the people buying them fire a box of ammo, one thumb cocked shot at at time at a target 5yds away and are pretty excited that they hit the target most of the time, ergo they wouldn't know if it was defective unless it wouldn't fire at all. Half the remaining customers are either sending it right to a smith or are doing the work them selves and understand that it showed up as a project. That leaves the small fraction that may end up sending it back if theirs turns out to be problematic

I agree with your idea that one less rule to worry about is a good thing, but if that was the idea then the solution would be to remove the distance requirement in the divisions where it was not wanted, not to change it to some other arbitrary dimension that will also not be enforced.