v1911 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 19 hours ago, RePete said: I have found that fault lines are subjective too. Also a trip hazard. Ignoring the trip hazard concern. How are the new fault lines subjective at your club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 10/15/2017 at 8:38 AM, v1911 said: Ignoring the trip hazard concern. How are the new fault lines subjective at your club? Not my club but all of the clubs I have shot at with grass. If you stand on the 1x2 and there is side overhang, is the shoe touching the grass or the ground. Subjective and inconsistant. If I see rollover the a PE, if not, no PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, RePete said: Not my club but all of the clubs I have shot at with grass. If you stand on the 1x2 and there is side overhang, is the shoe touching the grass or the ground. Subjective and inconsistant. If I see rollover the a PE, if not, no PE. I can see how that would be annoying. Thankfully our club only shoots on concrete indoors or outdoors in bays w/o grass. In the situation you described, during my walkthrough, just plan to keep your toes on the inside of the line and not on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 11:38 AM, DukeEB said: The new rules make it better. The 1sec PD just changes the measurements, not the game. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 59 minutes ago, RePete said: Not my club but all of the clubs I have shot at with grass. If you stand on the 1x2 and there is side overhang, is the shoe touching the grass or the ground. Subjective and inconsistant. If I see rollover the a PE, if not, no PE. I think this kind of stuff comes from SO's who don't really like the new rules. That and it seems like IDPA SO's try to make things harder than they need to be. I haven't been shooting USPSA as long as I've been shooting IDPA, but I've been USPSA'ing for several years now. And I've yet to see any subjectivity like this about fault lines. Also I've found I'm more likely to trip on braces for the walls and things like that then I am the fault lines. But, IDPA does seem more geared toward retiree's so I can see it being more of a issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I think this kind of stuff comes from SO's who don't really like the new rules. That and it seems like IDPA SO's try to make things harder than they need to be. I think that you may be partly right. While I don't like fault lines in IDPA, I try extremely hard to be fair and partial. I have shot and RO'd IPSC/USPSA for over 25 years and been competitively shooting for over 30 years.. 21 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I haven't been shooting USPSA as long as I've been shooting IDPA, but I've been USPSA'ing for several years now. And I've yet to see any subjectivity like this about fault lines. Also I've found I'm more likely to trip on braces for the walls and things like that then I am the fault lines. But, IDPA does seem more geared toward retiree's so I can see it being more of a issue. I've tripped on braces too. Been retired for nearly 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, RePete said: I think most guys try to be fair and partial. But, I see guys stand around debating the meaning of rules to no end at IDPA. Part of that is IDPA's fault, they need to leave things alone so people can learn what the rules are and not what they were. But, some of it is just guys getting hung up on what something means. The fault line debates are a good example, something that should be so simple has been made into a complicated mess at some clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I've been shooting USPSA since 1994, and IDPA since its inception. I like that IDPA has FINALLY went to fault lines, partly because I'm color blind, and most clubs I shoot at want to use red, or orange paint on grass, and I couldn't see them. I don't like that they changed the points down from .5 to 1 second, or that you have to put it in to the circle, in the head. the head is already a lot smaller than the lower, down 0 zone. What I really dislike, is they changed the sizes for CCP and BUG. I've NEVER shot an IDPA match, with no points down, but I did shoot one USPSA match with no points down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80clay Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Rule changes are always met with gnashing of teeth and underbreath comments, because it's different. If you had started shooting IDPA with the 1sec/pd rule, there'd be no cursing because it was always what it was. Shooters will adapt. Top shooters will still be top shooters. Personally, I think it was done because spray and pray had become a match strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsg Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Well it seems there are again changes to complain about. No longer being forced to shoot while moving... yet another example of the SO not being able to consistently call a PE and shooters trying to milk things to the furthest point. The new dinky 5 by 5 classifier... no movement and no shots over 10 yards. Hmmm that doesn't seem to accurately reflect a persons's score on many stages I have shot. I have gotten used to 1 sec down (indifferent), fault lines (good thing), and inner head ring (HATE this still) but now I really see this moving toward USPSA Light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushki25 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) My biggest adjustment is simply not shooting IDPA much at all any more. That said I did shoot an indoor match over the weekend that included the 5x5 classifier. My prediction is that it will not be around for very long in it's current format. An accurate shooter has more than 2.5 seconds on the draw and 0.5 second splits to make master with zero down. Not exactly master class shooting. This does not even account for the simple gaming that can be done by those that do such a thing. Due to mental malfunction reshoot of a string, you can shoot any string over and over and over again until your happy with the result and move on. Verify down zero or take an extra shot. You will see a lot of new masters once this becomes known and before the 5x5 disappears. Honestly IDPA was fun but those days are long gone. Edited February 6, 2018 by Mushki25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I think the new rules are the reason that one of my local clubs has started up an IDPA match. We had one a long time ago (15 years?) but the subjective BS in the game really turned everyone off and the match was cancelled. Now that the sport is less subjective it is much more attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsykes Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I havent been shooting either uspsa or idpa for about 7 years and just got back into it and was greeted with the new rules. I always liked uspsa better due to the more open rules and less depending on the subjective decisions by those running the show. So I think the intro of fault lines and moving away from as much subjection ruling as possible is a good thing. I think idpa has realized, its a game, they want to make it as realistic as possible, but still a game and having some good solid black and white rules are a good thing and not making it quite as rule intensive might draw a few more people into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floater Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 23 hours ago, jsykes said: So I think the intro of fault lines and moving away from as much subjection ruling as possible is a good thing. I think idpa has realized, its a game, they want to make it as realistic as possible, but still a game and having some good solid black and white rules are a good thing and not making it quite as rule intensive might draw a few more people into it. Yep, 2017 was my first year shooting IDPA, a few of the folks at are club stop shooting anything but locals, they didn't like going to another club and getting PE's for doing the same thing the local shooters were able to do with no PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 10/11/2017 at 11:47 AM, RePete said: I've never seen a fault line on the street, in the bush etc. They make this MORE of a game. Stopping to place fault lines will get you killed in a real gun fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Stopping to place fault lines will get you killed in a real gun fight. It's a game not training! Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 17 hours ago, GMB said: It's a game not training! Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Prettttttty sure he was joking... Also, please read this thread which is pinned to the top of the IDPA Forums. Yes, it's a game, we all know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, jhgtyre said: Prettttttty sure he was joking... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fvaly77 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Shot my first IDPA match this weekend under the new rules. It's different for sure. Slower pistol work by most people and it seemed to be the most fun for PCC shooters running optics. This particular 4 stage match had zero movement and no need for fault lines. I'll admit to stinking it up but overall it was quite boring compared to what I normally shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman195 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 hours ago, fvaly77 said: Shot my first IDPA match this weekend under the new rules. It's different for sure. Slower pistol work by most people and it seemed to be the most fun for PCC shooters running optics. This particular 4 stage match had zero movement and no need for fault lines. I'll admit to stinking it up but overall it was quite boring compared to what I normally shoot. PCC already dominates pistols, But I feel IDPA rules make it even easier with the -1 scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fvaly77 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Dutchman195 said: PCC already dominates pistols, But I feel IDPA rules make it even easier with the -1 scoring. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM83 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Glad IDPA is finally starting to modernize and get rid of the subjective BS. Bad calls by SO's are a huge problem given the nature of IDPA's rules and penalties. There are just way too many situations in which two people can do the exact same thing and one gets a penalty while the other does not. Was he "moving" while shooting? Was he behind cover? That hit looks in to me, but a little out to you... The rules updates since the beginning of 2017 have been great and have done a lot to bring fairness to the game, and to allow people to run guns which are actually fun to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Now you are getting subjective fault line calls. Wooden fault lines are a trip hazard. I was CSO at a State match and 2 people tripped on the wooden fault line. One I caught. It has gone IPSC/USPSA lite. It's not the same game I started playing 12 years ago. Yes I still play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, RePete said: It has gone IPSC/USPSA lite. Except that they have made some of the most fun targets, Texas stars and the like, illegal. You can shoot a legal stage that incorporates zombie cows with clay pigeon brain targets or a martian invasion scenario, but you can't shoot some of the common targets your club already owns, that would not be realistic. I do not know if martian zombie cows would be realistic or if you have to choose either martian or zombie. IDPA always has been USPSA lite for the majority of shooters, a fun game rather than a realistic form of self defense. I do not see why that is a bad thing & would like to see IDPA embrace the game rather than keep trying to straddle the fence. As is many quit IDPA because of the self defense pretensions (fishing vests & etc) but I think a lot of people could potentially come back if it ever embraced in principle what it is in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 The 2003 rulebook was better for the self defense game. As for the Texas Star, which I love shooting, I have seen only once where it simulated something remotely defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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