Anyone using a laser?

[BlackBuzzard]

Any pics of mounted CT 206's on the handgrip?

 

I'm thinking at 3oclock position?    

 

So far in the only two PCC matches done, I have yet to want for a laser.   But its clear someday in some match it would help considerably.

 

My expectations/hopes are that the CT 206 could be affixed to PCC quickly at the berm prior to walking up for stage??  Holds zero well with repeated removal/attaching?

 

While a compact laser, it still must stick out like 1.75 inches from handgrip??

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: From the pics I have seen of the CT206 with a C-More railway the C-More clears the laser when both are mounted on the same top rail. I think the real advantage is the really tight weak hand shot around a wall. I still don't have one but it is on the long list. Thanks, Eric

[ChuckS]

22 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: From the pics I have seen of the CT206 with a C-More railway the C-More clears the laser when both are mounted on the same top rail. I think the real advantage is the really tight weak hand shot around a wall. I still don't have one but it is on the long list. Thanks, Eric

Yup, the 206 works well with the c-more with the laser on top. No confusing offsets.

[ChuckS]

Check out the picture on the bottom of page 4 of the May Front Sight. The laser is right by his left thumb.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

Check out the picture on the bottom of page 4 of the May Front Sight. The laser is right by his left thumb.

 

I see that now.....interesting.

 

Thats a high mount for the optic in that picture.  

 

I have a c-more railway on my JP GMR, and wonder if there would be sight-picture interference if I put a CT 206 out there.

[ChuckS]

3 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

I see that now.....interesting.

 

Thats a high mount for the optic in that picture.  

 

I have a c-more railway on my JP GMR, and wonder if there would be sight-picture interference if I put a CT 206 out there.

Mike told me that the optical offset from the bore is about 2.75-3"

[ChuckS]

Here are a couple pictures that I took this morning. One shows the dot more or less in the center of the FOV. The other was trying to sight in just over the C-more knob. The laser is about 7/8" above the pic rail.If I wrap my had around the handguard with my thumb on top, the laser is just slightly higher than my knuckle. Of course, YMMV due to hand position, C-more position, handguard diameter, etc. For reference, I have the C-more mounted as far forward on the upper as possible. The rail on the handguard is level with the rail on the upper.

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If I get one I will mount it further back near my hand position so I can turn it on and off. I hold my weak hand closer to me and wrap my thumb over the top. I also think if it is mounted closer it is less likely to get banged on a port. Thanks, Eric

[DocMedic]

So here are my thoughts of my own experience with trying to use a laser in USPSA at local matches. I used a Crimson Trace 206 Green laser for my testing, pairing with my CompM2 aimpoint reddot.

 

BLUF: Not worth it if you have to shoot outdoors in bright sunny days, does fine indoors but unless you practice using a laser (IE learn how how the gun recoils etc) it will always still be faster to shoulder fire the gun.

 

I shot a total of 5 indoor matches and 3 outdoor matches with a Crimson trace 206 attempting to see if there was any benefit of keeping a laser on my PCC gun. I also incorporated some practice sessions to see how I can best utilize a green laser. I only saw a few benefits using a laser and none of which were a glaring advantage of being able to put the rifle on your shoulder and shooting.

 

One of the benefits I saw was first shot fired on target IF you were allowed to point the PCC at the target and you are at a buttstock on belt start. The advantage deteriorates if you need to engage multiple targets from the same shooting position (Think el-press).

 

Outdoors the advantage goes away completely once you get to 5 yards on a bright sunny day, reason behind this is the laser is starting to get to the point where its hard to see and spatial awareness completely goes away once the dot leaves the target from either transitioning to another target or if the dot does leave the target after a shot is fired. Inside of 3 yards in a outdoors setting using a laser was faster then shouldering& aiming with my Aimpoint, although only but 2 to 3 tenths faster from the "draw". What I found interesting is that when engaging multiple open faced targets and points were not consideration I would only clear a set of three targets by .3 seconds faster than I would had if I brought my MPX to my shoulder and shot for A's. Going for all A's using a laser always ended up being about .5 second slower than being able to shoulder the firearm.

Indoors, was much better, the laser at 25 yards was as bright as it looked at 3 yards indoors. Also, spatial awareness was much better due to a brighter laser dot and while transition through targets the laser would hit the back stop still allowing the laser to be seen.

For accuracy on 3 target arrays, there was no significant difference then what I’ve experienced at the outdoor range although I did see speed benefits at 5 and 7 yards most of the time.

 

Again, these advantages only occurred if starting with buttstock on belt with laser dot already on target. I did not see a significant advantage in times starting with PCC “pointed directly downrange” vs shouldering and aiming, and no speed benefit at all if the PCC is allowed to start at a low ready position.

For hard leans and not able to shoulder the PCC:

 

There is an advantage to using a laser both indoors and outdoors when hard leans do not allow the shooter to get behind the gun shouldered. I would say from my testing anything inside 4 yards a laser did have the advantage when it came to accuracy but not so much on speed. If the target started to push in distance indoors (tested distance was at 10 yards) the laser offered a significant advantage over pointing and shooting, in both speed and accuracy. These results were hard to replicate outdoors due the laser being almost impossible to see past 5 yards.

 

Hard leans with being able to shoulder & aim with reddot:

 

The advantage of using a laser in these situations was none existent outdoors, and didn’t provide a significant advantage indoors either.

 

My conclusion is that while a laser is a significant advantage indoors vs outdoors, I find that real world match use you are spending less than 2% of your match time finding yourself in those situations where a laser is beneficial. I’m sure with practice a laser can be a good tool but as of now I no longer have my laser on my PCC gun and I do not see me spending the money on a laser system if and when a brighter outdoor laser becomes available.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by DocMedic

[DocMedic]

Double tap

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by DocMedic

[2011BLDR]

On 6/26/2017 at 6:37 AM, BlackBuzzard said:

Any pics of mounted CT 206's on the handgrip?

 

I'm thinking at 3oclock position?    

 

So far in the only two PCC matches done, I have yet to want for a laser.   But its clear someday in some match it would help considerably.

 

My expectations/hopes are that the CT 206 could be affixed to PCC quickly at the berm prior to walking up for stage??  Holds zero well with repeated removal/attaching?

 

While a compact laser, it still must stick out like 1.75 inches from handgrip??

 

12 O'Clock. 

[nate89]

On 4/21/2017 at 10:31 PM, robertg5322 said:

Recently saw a guy use a laser on a classifier, Can You Count. Never brought the gun to his shoulder. Wicked fast time. Hit factor was like 11. He also nailed his reloads, so you still gotta shoot the gun, but was fun to watch.

 

I was going to post the exact same thing.  He just shot it with the stock under his armpit.  Reload speeds were crazy as he didn't have to mount/dismount the gun.  Those targets were only a couple yards away, so it worked very well.

[ChuckS]

This is a video of Max shooting stage 8 of the 2017 Area 2 Championship. I could not find a video for Foley. This was the first stage of the morning on Saturday so there was not much/any direct sunlight on the targets.

 

 

This was the result with Mike using his 206:

 

 

It has its place

[v1911]

Hot damn!

[v1911]

I have no affiliation with this company, but it looks like a killer deal if you want to try out the 206.

 

Crimson Trace CMR -206

 

In my basket, it came out to $109 to my door. 

[BigBamBoo]

Anyone that is buying or owns a CT laser can get free batteries it seems. Info here:  https://www.crimsontrace.com/support/free_batteries_for_life/

 

 

 

[v1911]

22 hours ago, BigBamBoo said:

Anyone that is buying or owns a CT laser can get free batteries it seems. Info here:  https://www.crimsontrace.com/support/free_batteries_for_life/

 

 

 

Nice find!

 

I'll be taking advantage of that offer asap. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by v1911

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have one coming. There was two stages this past weekend it would have been helpful on hard leans. Although I did lean over and fell out of the box but still managed to get 3 in the "A" zone before I fell out. Thanks, Eric

[BlackBuzzard]

why the heavy discounting on the crimson trace 206?

 

bet  there's a new and improved version in the pipeline.

[BlackBuzzard]

How long do the inexpensive unbranded 1/3N Batteries CR1/3N 3-Volt Lithium Batteries   last in lasers or red dots compared to say duracell?

 

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Loopacell-Batteries-3-Volt-Lithium-Battery/dp/B072QCZYMX/ref=sr_1_11_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1499697091&sr=1-11&keywords=DL1%2F3N+CR1%2F3N+3V+Lithium+Battery

 

At 90 cents each for the above, I could live with a shorter battery life.

 

Crimson Trace will only send out one battery per yr for free.

Edited July 10, 2017 by BlackBuzzard

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I know on the C-More with the single no name brand battery they last about two months. If I use two no name 357 batteries they last about 6 months. Not sure on the laser since it is not here yet. I ended up getting mine for $95 shipped from OP with code "D4DLS". Don't really care if they have a new one coming since this one is in my price range of under $100 and they seem to work well from what I have seen. Thanks, Eric

[xdcr]

I put a CT 206 on my PCC and have used it a few times so far. Twice on classifiers using the "point and bang, bang" at the beep and one other time on a stage start doing the same thing.  On the non-classifier stage I found the laser dot distracting while I shot the rest of the stage. The bay was shaded and there was a bunch of steel and a star and that darn dot was all over the place. It would be easy to turn off I suppose as the switch is right where my thumb is but that's one more thing to think about. I haven't seen a  stage yet to use the reach around and point shoot technique. But so far I'm optimistic!

 

BTW-I have an RTS on a 1/2" riser and I don't even notice the laser in the optic while shooting.

Edited July 10, 2017 by xdcr

[JBBoise]

On 6/27/2017 at 12:02 PM, 2011BLDR said:

 

12 O'Clock. 

 

I don't think that would work for me because I wrap my thumb around the top.  I have a CT 206 on the way, looking forward to playing with it.

[2011BLDR]

52 minutes ago, JBBoise said:

 

I don't think that would work for me because I wrap my thumb around the top.  I have a CT 206 on the way, looking forward to playing with it.

So put the laser where you need it  along the top rail to wrap your thumb behind it.

[dapribek]

My Viridian green laser is visible in bright sunlight beyond 50 yards.