S&W misses mark again

[mwx40x40]

Now I know us competitive shooters are a small crowd and how we don't effect the market all that much, blah, blah, blah. But , I was looking on the S&W website at "New Products" and see they are offering another configuration of a 4" 625. What I think we all want is a 5" or even a 6.5" (25-2 profile).

You see the part I don't understand is that they are also offering a 2.5" 41 Mag at almost $1200. So , there is a sizeable market for an expensive 2.5" 41 Mag, but not for a longer barreled 625?????

I guess this is like wishing for a 40 M&P Longslide...

[Duane Thomas]

In IDPA you're limited to a max 4" barrel length.

[G-ManBart]

Now I know us competitive shooters are a small crowd and how we don't effect the market all that much, blah, blah, blah. But , I was looking on the S&W website at "New Products" and see they are offering another configuration of a 4" 625. What I think we all want is a 5" or even a 6.5" (25-2 profile).

You see the part I don't understand is that they are also offering a 2.5" 41 Mag at almost $1200. So , there is a sizeable market for an expensive 2.5" 41 Mag, but not for a longer barreled 625?????I guess this is like wishing for a 40 M&P Longslide...

Evidently so. They have to know how many 625s they sell, and in what barrel lengths, so I'm sure they've got plenty of research to back up the decision to offer the 4". They seem to have done well with the Thunder Ranch and similar models, so I doubt they're just guessing. Some people will carry an N-frame with a 4 or 2.5" barrel...not so much a 5". Smith probably sells more guns in a week that are wholly unsuited for competition than they probably sell in a year that are what we'd like.

Actually, I'd like a 4", but I'd go with the 325 TR version....great nightstand gun for the wife since she's likes revolvers better and loves my 610 3 7/8"....and mounting a light would be handy.

Edit to add: You know you're gonna get beat up about this right? Smith didn't miss the mark last time, you just didn't want to hear the truth. From the outset you're making statement as if it's a fact, when it's just a guess based upon nothing more than your personal feelings. Unless you've been hired by Smith, you have zero evidence, proof, or inside knowledge to support the idea that they've made some mistake. If a year goes by and that 4" 625 is languishing on shelves, being discounted heavily etc, then you can say they've missed the mark (but it's not gonna happen, I'll bet on it).

Further, after your being upset they aren't offering more M&P versions I'd think you'd be thrilled to see they have two new Pro models....both 4 1/2" guns in 9 and .40....that's almost the 5" .40 Pro you want man....why complain, be happy!

Edited January 5, 2010 by G-ManBart

[TMC]

Evidently so. They have to know how many 625s they sell, and in what barrel lengths, so I'm sure they've got plenty of research to back up the decision to offer the 4". They seem to have done well with the Thunder Ranch and similar models, so I doubt they're just guessing. Some people will carry an N-frame with a 4 or 2.5" barrel...not so much a 5". Smith probably sells more guns in a week that are wholly unsuited for competition than they probably sell in a year that are what we'd like.

Making complete sense and logical statements are not going to make him feel better

[Chris Christian]

Maybe S&W is looking at the growth of IDPA and offering a model for that market. It wouldn't be the first time. They did come out with a SSR model last year that was geared to the IDPA Stock Service Revolver class.

Chris Christian

[mwx40x40]

Now I know us competitive shooters are a small crowd and how we don't effect the market all that much, blah, blah, blah. But , I was looking on the S&W website at "New Products" and see they are offering another configuration of a 4" 625. What I think we all want is a 5" or even a 6.5" (25-2 profile).

You see the part I don't understand is that they are also offering a 2.5" 41 Mag at almost $1200. So , there is a sizeable market for an expensive 2.5" 41 Mag, but not for a longer barreled 625?????I guess this is like wishing for a 40 M&P Longslide...

Evidently so. They have to know how many 625s they sell, and in what barrel lengths, so I'm sure they've got plenty of research to back up the decision to offer the 4". They seem to have done well with the Thunder Ranch and similar models, so I doubt they're just guessing. Some people will carry an N-frame with a 4 or 2.5" barrel...not so much a 5". Smith probably sells more guns in a week that are wholly unsuited for competition than they probably sell in a year that are what we'd like.

Actually, I'd like a 4", but I'd go with the 325 TR version....great nightstand gun for the wife since she's likes revolvers better and loves my 610 3 7/8"....and mounting a light would be handy.

Edit to add: You know you're gonna get beat up about this right? Smith didn't miss the mark last time, you just didn't want to hear the truth. From the outset you're making statement as if it's a fact, when it's just a guess based upon nothing more than your personal feelings. Unless you've been hired by Smith, you have zero evidence, proof, or inside knowledge to support the idea that they've made some mistake. If a year goes by and that 4" 625 is languishing on shelves, being discounted heavily etc, then you can say they've missed the mark (but it's not gonna happen, I'll bet on it).

Further, after your being upset they aren't offering more M&P versions I'd think you'd be thrilled to see they have two new Pro models....both 4 1/2" guns in 9 and .40....that's almost the 5" .40 Pro you want man....why complain, be happy!

Yep, guess I figured this was gonna happen Statement not intended to fact, but as you mentioned , just my personal opinion , which I know does not mean anything to anybody but me.

Probably should have just been stated as a "wish list" . BTW, I am not upset, I love S&W and hope they continue to prosper for years.

[G-ManBart]

Yep, guess I figured this was gonna happen Statement not intended to fact, but as you mentioned , just my personal opinion , which I know does not mean anything to anybody but me.

Probably should have just been stated as a "wish list" . BTW, I am not upset, I love S&W and hope they continue to prosper for years.

I'm not being a wiseguy...seriously, go take a look at the Smith and Wesson Forum. That's the people they're selling to. I checked (quickly) and there wasn't a single thread on any 25/325/625 in the first two or three pages (lots of activity there) of the section for revolvers made 1980 to now.

Now, don't get me wrong, I respect the heck out of some of the folks on that board, some have given me invaluable advice and even hooked me up with a sweeeet deal on a very collectible model 41, so I'm not bashing them, but their focus is so radically different to here as to seem alien. There are/were two threads on Model 10s on the first page....Model 10s???? Please, that's the joke for my avatar byline. It's not like the M-10 is a bad gun, but it's always been a simple, inexpensive, (honestly) boring little revolver....and there isn't a single thread about the best match revolver made today. Weird huh? That's who's buying guns....not what we'd like, but reality.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/

[glockwerkes]

I guess the rumors of 5" gun were just that, rumors. What I did just notice was the main header photo on the S&W home page, a mooned up 625! Don't know if it's a new photo, or I just never paid close enough attention before. Photo is credited it Ichiro Nagata. It's the last photo to play in the slideshow at the top. Stuffed full of +P's.

In case someone is interested in a $1200 4", here's the link:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/sto...tegory_rn=15702

[Carmoney]

Maybe S&W is looking at the growth of IDPA and offering a model for that market. It wouldn't be the first time. They did come out with a SSR model last year that was geared to the IDPA Stock Service Revolver class.

Chris Christian

IDPA's ESR division is certainly not a growth area. SSR has become somewhat popular, particularly in the Northeast, but largely at the expense of ESR. USPSA Revolver Division continues to gain popularity, which is one reason for the fact that used 5" 625s are climbing in value.

With all the retro models in their line, and with the 4" 625 still being made, you would think it would make sense to continue offering a 5" version.

I must disagree with the suggestion in another post that if S&W discontinued the 5" 625, it must be for rational business reasons. They have some of the stupidest products imaginable in their line right now. A 5" barreled Model 60--gimme a frickin' break here.

[mikey357]

I must disagree with the suggestion in another post that if S&W discontinued the 5" 625, it must be for rational business reasons. They have some of the stupidest products imaginable in their line right now. A 5" barreled Model 60--gimme a frickin' break here.

When I worked at XEROX back in the early '80's, I saw first-hand that "Rational" and "Business" were sometimes MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE...seems like S&W has kinda' "Revived" that "Concept" here...

FWIW, I pick up every NICE 25-2 or 625 I can...and keep the BEST one(s) for ME, then pass the rest along...kinda' "Catch and Release", in a way... ...BTW, anyone know where there might be a NICE 6 & 1/2 inch 25-2 BARREL layin' around, gatherin' DUST??? Got a PROJECT in mind, so let me know...TIA....mikey357

[Allgoodhits]

...much of this thread reminds me of a conversaton I had with someone from BERETTA a decade or so ago, when I inquired about a certain model which was offered in Europe but not in the USA. Quote, " Yes, we get a lot of calls on that, there is no demand".

MJ

[chemepharmd]

Quote, " Yes, we get a lot of calls on that, there is no demand".

MJ

You gotta love that statement

[mikey357]

...much of this thread reminds me of a conversaton I had with someone from BERETTA a decade or so ago, when I inquired about a certain model which was offered in Europe but not in the USA. Quote, " Yes, we get a lot of calls on that, there is no demand".

MJ

...or, see my previous post regarding "Business" and "Rational" sometimes being MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE...like in THESE CASES!!!... ....mikey357

[Toolguy]

That reminds me of the time I asked someone if they'd been to Branson, MO. They said "Nope... No one goes there anymore - it's too

crowded."

[DWFAN]

That reminds me of the time I asked someone if they'd been to Branson, MO. They said "Nope... No one goes there anymore - it's too

crowded."

So, does anyone make a 5in barrel that could be installed on the new 4in guns they are selling ? Or would that exclude the gun from desired divisions ? (kind of new to revo but have a 5in 625 )

[Flexmoney]

That reminds me of the time I asked someone if they'd been to Branson, MO. They said "Nope... No one goes there anymore - it's too

crowded."

I think that one originated with Yogi Berra ? Then again, he never said most of the things he said.

[Gary Stevens]

USPSA Revolver Division is basically a revolver, i.e. a cylinder-frame-barrel combination. Buy one, build one, borrow one, etc. Make it fit your fancy. Shoot 6 and reload. Not much else to say.

[G-ManBart]

I must disagree with the suggestion in another post that if S&W discontinued the 5" 625, it must be for rational business reasons. They have some of the stupidest products imaginable in their line right now. A 5" barreled Model 60--gimme a frickin' break here.

Unless I missed someone else's post, that wasn't what I said at all. I said that coming out with the new 4" gun would have been made for rational business reasons. I never talked about discontinuing the 5" gun.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that they do market research, on some level, before they decide to offer a particular gun. No way in the world they're cranking out 600K+ guns per year without a plan, and those sorts of plans revolve around a business model. They've got to show expected sales will exceed the expected costs by a certain percentage, or they won't do it save some additional force (like a special Olympic model they'll lose money on, but gain overall market share because it's more advertising than anything).

Sure, a 5" M60 seems silly to you, but there are probably more Smith revolver geeks out there that want one, or will just buy one "because" than there are USPSA shooters who want a 5" 625 that really is only useful for a game.

I shake my head at what the mainstream shooters and collectors just go crazy over, but that's the reality of the market.....we're a tiny fraction of it.

What I don't get is the people picking on S&W as if they're all messed up and making terrible decisions. Hey folks, they're one of the most successful gun manufacturers in the world right now. That wouldn't be the case if they were screwing up and coming out with models that aren't going to sell. R,

[G-ManBart]

...much of this thread reminds me of a conversaton I had with someone from BERETTA a decade or so ago, when I inquired about a certain model which was offered in Europe but not in the USA. Quote, " Yes, we get a lot of calls on that, there is no demand".

MJ

That was probably true.....the small percentage of folks who want one go out of their way to call. Getting "a lot" of calls doesn't mean there are enough people interested to make it a profitable venture. Even if they get say ten calls a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year. Wow....that's a whopping 2,600 guns they can look forward to selling, and probably not everybody who called will really buy one, so make it 2,300 guns. Sure, some other folks out there that didn't call might like it....heck say it's an equal number of folks....we'd still be talking less than 5,000 guns. That equals "no demand" to a company the size of Smith, but ten calls a day sure would seem like a lot if you're the person answering the phone

[Tom E]

In the same vein, how are sales on the last run of 38 super 627's?

[atbarr]

Getting "a lot" of calls doesn't mean there are enough people interested to make it a profitable venture.

A good example is the thread about the 9mm Spartan. Lot's of interest, but so far only two orders.

A.T.

[Middle Man]

In the same vein, how are sales on the last run of 38 super 627's?

Slow. That's not unexpected.

[revoman]

If they had actually modified the 38 Super 627 from the first run. Example would be a different profile on the barrel and a true .356 barrel maybe a 6 to 6 1/2 inch barrel. Stayed with the original Miculek grips instead of a cheaper brand or at least put some rubber Hogues on it and not charge extra for the cheap colored grips. I think they would have sold better.

[twodownzero]

Getting "a lot" of calls doesn't mean there are enough people interested to make it a profitable venture.

A good example is the thread about the 9mm Spartan. Lot's of interest, but so far only two orders.

A.T.

Oh, cmon, it's only been a few days.

[G-ManBart]

Getting "a lot" of calls doesn't mean there are enough people interested to make it a profitable venture.

A good example is the thread about the 9mm Spartan. Lot's of interest, but so far only two orders.

A.T.

Oh, cmon, it's only been a few days.

True, and I think they'll sell some, but not even remotely as many as they will in .45 (and probably .40). Obviously they think they'll sell enough to make it worthwhile. The difference might be that, compared to Smith, STI is a very small company putting out only a fraction of what S&W does annually. That means they don't have to generate the same numbers. The really big and in the equation is that they're outsourcing the gun, which makes it hard to compare directly...and I'm not suggesting I know how that would all pan out as I certainly don't know the details of the deal (i.e. if STI pays for Armscor's setup costs or just a fixed unit cost). R,