PaulW Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Sorry guys I'm sure I could dig this one up but I need help on this one. Had a shooter today that I gave the unload and show clear, then slide, hammer, holster commands, after this they went to holster their unloaded gun, missed the holster and it fell to the ground. I handled it like a gun that fell out during a walkthrough as I picked gun up, cleared it and gave back to shooter who then holstered, done deal. Since I had not given the range clear command I am a little unsure if I did the right thing? Was this a DQ'able offense or did I handle it correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I believe that if a gun is dropped anytime between " load and make ready " and "range is clear" it's a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 That happened to a squadmate at the last local match. He was DQed for the reason it was before the range clear command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Sorry to hear about it Paul, but yeah, it's a DQ. The CoF isn't completed until the "Range Is Clear" command is issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC-1 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 +1 on the DQ, However, in the situation you discussed i don't think I would give you a hard time about the way it was handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 +1 on the DQ, However, in the situation you discussed i don't think I would give you a hard time about the way it was handled. Really? Wow I guess is all I can say to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 It is a DQ. I would not give you a hard time in public or at the range etc. And I am not judging you here and now. But there is a problem with doing it the way you did it and that is they did not learn a hard necessary lesson for when it happens next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elynch2007 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 It is a DQ, and you should place a dropped gun into the holster, not hand it back to the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Obviously I am asking because I was unsure on how to handle the situation. Further discussion with the range master brought up more questions. I am trying to learn and if I did make a mistake I want to learn so I am better prepaired next time. I would have had no problems DQ'ing someone if thats what the rules stated. My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. As for clearing a dropped gun and the RO placing the gun in their holster I had never heard or seen this before???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Obviously I am asking because I was unsure on how to handle the situation. Further discussion with the range master brought up more questions. I am trying to learn and if I did make a mistake I want to learn so I am better prepaired next time. I would have had no problems DQ'ing someone if thats what the rules stated. My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. As for clearing a dropped gun and the RO placing the gun in their holster I had never heard or seen this before???? 10.5.14 covers outside of the COF and includes the placing the gun in the shooters holster, bag or gun rug language..... 10.5.3 covers your situation today.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 8.3.1 “Make Ready” – This command signifies the start of “the Course of Fire”. 8.3.8 “Range Is Clear” – This declaration signifies the end of the Course of fire. Dropped gun anytime between these two commands is during the course of fire and a DQ under: 10.5.3 If at any time during the course of fire, or while loading, reloading or unloading, a competitor drops his handgun or causes it to fall, loaded or not. Dropped gun outside the course of fire: 10.5.14 Retrieving a dropped handgun. Dropped handguns must always be retrieved by a Range Officer who will, after checking and/or clearing the handgun, place it directly into the competitor’s gun case, gun bag or holster. Dropping an unloaded handgun or causing it to fall outside of a course of fire is not an infraction, however, a competitor who retrieves a dropped handgun will receive a match disqualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. Go for you. I expect you'll find it to be a very positive experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Obviously I am asking because I was unsure on how to handle the situation. Further discussion with the range master brought up more questions. I am trying to learn and if I did make a mistake I want to learn so I am better prepaired next time. I would have had no problems DQ'ing someone if thats what the rules stated. My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. As for clearing a dropped gun and the RO placing the gun in their holster I had never heard or seen this before???? I took the RO course this summer in only my first year in the sport. I thought sure it was too early but man, I learned an awful lot. It was an excellent way to learn the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. Go for you. I expect you'll find it to be a very positive experience. Really????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. Go for you. I expect you'll find it to be a very positive experience. Really????? Yes, really. It wouldn't hurt you to join him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 The guy who got me into shooting USPSA was a real SOB but he got me enrolled into an RO course within the first 6 months of my starting to shoot. His excuse was that, to cheat effectively, you needed to know the rules better than the next guy. A screwed up rationale to be sure, but he was right about the benefits of knowing the rules. In my 20 years of shooing I have encountered several RO's that made incorrect calls against me and my squadmates that I was able to correct before they were applied against us. Without a working knowledge of the rules you have to accept the other guy's interpretation, and that may not be correct or to your benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. Go for you. I expect you'll find it to be a very positive experience. Really????? Yes, really. It wouldn't hurt you to join him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 My biggest fault is being in the sport for over 10 years and never taking the RO course. Thats to be fixed soon. Go for you. I expect you'll find it to be a very positive experience. Really????? Yes, really. It wouldn't hurt you to join him. He is too busy "Thinking...." about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) Yup, DQ, but one that I really don't think any more necessary than a dropped one out of the COF. The gun has been cleared the hammer down. There's not anymore chance of it going bang than one getting knocked out of the holster. Saw the screws come loose on a guy dropped it and the holtser in the dirt and he was sent home. I do not agree with it, but will enforce until it's changed... if ever. JT Edited November 9, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 While the DQ is crystal clear, we need to understand why it still bothers some folks: the gun was unloaded & had just been verified as so. Thus, what happened could be seen as no more "dangerous" than a dropped gun outside the COF. One is a DQ while the other is not a DQ. Nevertheless, the lines for our rules have to be draw someplace, and I think they are well-placed right where they are in this area. Besides, the incident did invlove "gun handling" - which we require to be done safely. The most often "dropped gun" scenario I have seen outside the COF involved race holsters that were improperly locked & there were no hands near the gun when it fell. Good Q. OP. Regards, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 While the DQ is crystal clear, we need to understand why it still bothers some folks: the gun was unloaded & had just been verified as so. Thus, what happened could be seen as no more "dangerous" than a dropped gun outside the COF. One is a DQ while the other is not a DQ.Nevertheless, the lines for our rules have to be draw someplace, and I think they are well-placed right where they are in this area. Besides, the incident did invlove "gun handling" - which we require to be done safely. The most often "dropped gun" scenario I have seen outside the COF involved race holsters that were improperly locked & there were no hands near the gun when it fell. Good Q. OP. Regards, C. Actually, I believe this falls under unsafe gunhandling. The pistol was in the shooters direct control when it missed the holster and was dropped to the ground. Under the accidental dislodging of a weapon outside of the COF, say, i'm running to chase someone with a video camera and my pistol hops up and out as I scramble (one reason I always have one hand on my gun as I jog through a cof when I'm looking it over). This wasn't a handled weapon, it was an accident. The only time you can handle the weapon is after "make ready" until you are told "range is clear". If you drop a directly controlled weapon - it's a DQ - loaded or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardway Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I am very new to the sport, but i want to thank you for posting this and helping learn the rules a bit better. I'll be looking into taking an ro course as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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