dirty whiteboy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Since there is no longer a 10 round capacity restriction on magazines. Wouldn't it make sense to change the rules to allow shooters to fill their standard capacity magazines? Another rule I don't quite understand is: all production is scored minor, but many guns on the approved Production list are 40 cal, 45 acp, and 10mm. Combine the PF with the use of full capacity magazines and I think it would make Production an interesting Division to shoot. Would you shoot a CZ with 19 rounds minor, or a Glock with 15 rd at major? Hmmm? What says you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Last time I checked MA and some other states still have 10 round restriction on magazines! You can also shoot .40 in minor... makes for a good load. Oh- Production is fun now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 If you want to load the mags up and shoot Major, take your .40 and go to Limited. Production works, leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Part of the challenge of production is 10rnds and all minor.. makes it interesting.. if I wanted to shoot major/minor scoring with full cap mags..I'd go Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Last time I checked MA and some other states still have 10 round restriction on magazines!You can also shoot .40 in minor... makes for a good load. Oh- Production is fun now! Not to be sarcastic, but are there no Open or Limited shooters from Mass. Should one state dictate what the rules are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Last time I checked MA and some other states still have 10 round restriction on magazines!You can also shoot .40 in minor... makes for a good load. Oh- Production is fun now! Not to be sarcastic, but are there no Open or Limited shooters from Mass. Should one state dictate what the rules are? We had a few Open/Limited shooters from MA shoot the Area8. CA has a 10 rd magazine law and we probably have a few hundred Open/Limited shooters in CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think that is the best part about shooting Production, you need to really plan your reloads and I love the challenge. I vote to never change the 10 round rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Several states have magazine capacity limitations, such as California. The current production rules allow everybody to play on a level field. It also allows guns from virtually every manufacturer to participate. Similar to limited 10, it allows Glock, S&W, Springfield to play where STI, SVI guns were the norm in "limited". Seiichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think that is the best part about shooting Production, you need to really plan your reloads and I love the challenge. I vote to never change the 10 round rule. I understand that, but one could also argue that there is already a Limited 10 Division. Just like previous posters have stated, if I wanted to shoot Limited 10. I would shoot in that Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Last time I checked MA and some other states still have 10 round restriction on magazines!You can also shoot .40 in minor... makes for a good load. Oh- Production is fun now! Not to be sarcastic, but are there no Open or Limited shooters from Mass. Should one state dictate what the rules are? Yes there are. Limited-10 helps as well. We can get "preban" hi caps mags but that gets very expensive. And not to be sarcastic here either- but MA doesn't dictate any USPSA rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Keep in mind I shoot IPSC, not USPSA................. Production was origionally intended to give newbies a place to start. It was intended to be a place where real street carry guns could find a home. It was intended to be what Standard was origionally supposed to be, out of the box, no modifications allowed. It was intended to be a division where guns other than the 1911 could shine. IPSC is considering ammending the rules to limit mag capacity to 15. The reason seems to be primarly to stem the unintended consequence of IPSC sticking to the no-modification rules. The rule designed to keep the guns stock and hopefully to encourage the makers to ship competition ready guns from the factory, has also spurred a mag capacity race. It's so very easy for a discussion about the rules to become an attack on the people, so I'll try to avoid it. In my humble opinion, I think Production should stay as IPSC has kept it, as pure as possible. As far as the mag limits go, I could plead no interest, as Canada has a 10 round limit anyway. However, I think any mag limit is stupid, and hope the issue is dropped by Vince. I understand his reasoning, but I fear the results may backfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I thought the purpose of Limited 10 was to have a division for competitors who had magazine restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I say leave it minor and load'm up boys. That is the way the come from the factory right? JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I say leave it minor and load'm up boys. That is the way the come from the factory right? JT Then everybody would be rushing out to buy XDMs... I LIKE the 10-round limit in Production. If I'm at a fun-shoot, and wanna go nuts, I slap on an extension, and load 24-25 in my M&P. Limited-Minor. Now.... I DO think they should allow 9mm in Limited if it makes PF... like they do in Open. I'd shoot 9mm Major out of my M&P with mag extensions and no optics... My M&P Pro shoot 9-Major ammo just fine... JeffWard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I say leave it minor and load'm up boys. That is the way the come from the factory right? JT Then everybody would be rushing out to buy XDMs... I LIKE the 10-round limit in Production. If I'm at a fun-shoot, and wanna go nuts, I slap on an extension, and load 24-25 in my M&P. Limited-Minor. Now.... I DO think they should allow 9mm in Limited if it makes PF... like they do in Open. I'd shoot 9mm Major out of my M&P with mag extensions and no optics... My M&P Pro shoot 9-Major ammo just fine... JeffWard I'm an Open guy Jeff... what did you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Production is fine where it is......but one state where hi-caps were not grandfathered or allow them in any shape or form, Hawaii. So there, all we have (well, "had" in my case when I was there and "have" for those that still live there) was Open-10 and Limited-10. Even though L-10 wasn't even dreamed of at the time. :-) Also at the time, you had so many folks within USPSA complaining about their single-stack or whatever gun that couldn't hold as many rounds as the highest-of-caps was the reason they were stuck in C-class and always losing. But yet the folks in Hawaii were making M and GM in both Open and Limited......of which I still proud to say that I was the first to get M from shooting classifiers in Hawaii, yes a white boy was first! :-) Those "uncompetitive" arguments and the desire to bring single-stacks and production style guns back into the game is what spawned Limited-10. But all L-10 ended up being was the full blown race guns with only 10 rounds loaded......and people were still complaining. And so we got Production and Single Stack with VERY specific rules in order to ensure EXACTLY what will be shot in those divisions. There is a division for every gun and every person. And because the rules in Single Stack and Production are so stringent and detailed, you really don't hear the argument any more about how unfair one gun is over the other, why this gun's mag capacity is keeping me in C-class, and etc. anymore. Maybe all of the divisions' rules aren't perfect, but they have leveled the playing field and kept a lot of silly arguments relatively silent for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Since there is no longer a 10 round capacity restriction on magazines. Wouldn't it make sense to change the rules to allow shooters to fill their standard capacity magazines? Another rule I don't quite understand is: all production is scored minor, but many guns on the approved Production list are 40 cal, 45 acp, and 10mm. Combine the PF with the use of full capacity magazines and I think it would make Production an interesting Division to shoot. Would you shoot a CZ with 19 rounds minor, or a Glock with 15 rd at major? Hmmm? What says you? You know you're talking about Limited Division now, right? All of those things can already be done in Limited..... Production is the fastest growing division in the sport; let's not attempt to fix what isn't broken. Actually the current mix of divisions provides places for virtually all guns to play on a fairly equitable footing..... Notice I said almost all --- the Browning Hi-Power still doesn't have a great place..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't propose a change for this one. I just think it would be cool to be able to load a production gun up other than using it like a Single Stack. EDIT: With+out having to go major/minor deal. I don't see any reason not to let 9mm go major and say limit the mags in all limited to 21or2 Again, this is not a proposal, it's just some guys talking between COFs. Edited September 21, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddrod Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I wouldn't propose a change for this one. I just think it would be cool to be able to load a production gun up other than using it like a Single Stack. Load it up and shoot in Limited. Leave Production alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't propose a change for this one. I just think it would be cool to be able to load a production gun up other than using it like a Single Stack. Load it up and shoot in Limited. Leave Production alone Limited MINOR It's not really an option if you want to be competitive... Unless they allow you to make major with it. Then everyone would scream about mag capacity. PS That's what I'm going to do for some club matches... just load up and go limited minor. Edited September 21, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Or grab a 170mm mag, load it up with 9 major and shoot in Open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Production is by far the fastest growing Division up here in MN and across our great nation , so the USPSA and IPSC are doing something right, never fix something that isn't broke. Once in a while I shoot Limited for fun with my G34 I still end up dropping my mags like I am shooting Production, I guess I can't count past 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) Background: When IPSC first introduced Production it was with a 10-round limit. The General Assembly said yes to the division but threw out the 10 round limitation. Production is growing in IPSC without a 10 round limit. Production is growing in USPSA with a 10 round limit. Edited September 21, 2009 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I say leave it minor and load'm up boys. That is the way the come from the factory right? JT Well, unfortunately there a bunch of people (myself included) who bought guns and mags during the restriction and all of those are 10 round mags. Removing the 10 round limit would force people like myself to dump a bunch more money into new mags (~40.00 a pop x 5 mags = $200.00 for CZ mags) to be competitive. I think that would hurt the division and like Brittin said, it's growing "as is". You can grab a gun you bought a few years ago and go. The gun/mags are on a level playing field with brand new toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Production is by far the fastest growing Division up here in MN and across our great nation , so the USPSA and IPSC are doing something right, never fix something that isn't broke. Nobody said it was broken. but how about an improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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