shooterbenedetto Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Planning to shoot my Gold team V12 tanfoglio open at the nationals but can I use STI open as a back up gun if it breaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Planning to shoot my Gold team V12 tanfoglio open at the nationals but can I useSTI open as a back up gun if it breaks? Identical, no but you can't gain an advantage by going to your back up gun. Then again if your backup gun had an advantage why wouldn't you be using it in the first place :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Identical, no but you can't gain an advantage by going to your back up gun. Calibers must match as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Planning to shoot my Gold team V12 tanfoglio open at the nationals but can I useSTI open as a back up gun if it breaks? Identical, no but you can't gain an advantage by going to your back up gun. Then again if your backup gun had an advantage why wouldn't you be using it in the first place :-) The question has nothing to do with advantage or disadvantage, I meant that with no offense,just want to know if I can use an sti open if my EAA breaks that's all? STI is the only BACKUP open gun I have left. Edited August 28, 2009 by shooterbenedetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Identical, no but you can't gain an advantage by going to your back up gun. Calibers must match as well. OOPS, ok I got it. I guess not. EA 38 supercomp. STI 9major. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I'd call 38Super and 9mm the same caliber. Both are .355". 30/06, .308... both are .30 caliber. Rob, where does it say they have to be the same? I'm not finding it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Ed, I think the same caliber thing is an old rule. Here is the current sections: 5.1.7 Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match. However, in the event that a competitor’s original handgun and/or sights become unserviceable or unsafe during a match, the competitor must, before using a substitute handgun and/or sights, seek permission from the Range Master who may approve the substitution provided he is satisfied: 5.1.7.1 The substitute handgun satisfies the requirements of the relevant Division. 5.1.7.2 In using the substitute handgun the competitor will not gain a competitive advantage. 5.1.7.3 The competitor’s replacement handgun and its appropriate ammunition must be chronographed per Rule 5.6, regardless of whether or not the original handgun was previously tested. 5.1.7.4 If the original handgun/ammunition was not previously tested, and if the original handgun has already been used on a stage, and can be safely fired (i.e. the malfunction is not related to an inability to safely fire the handgun), then the original handgun and its ammunition supply remain subject to testing. You should be fine with your STI. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 That's says alot thank you Chuck! and to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Rob, where does it say they have to be the same? I'm not finding it Dang, you're right!!! It looks like it was an old rule unless I am missing something as well. If you switch handguns at the nationals, be sure to follow proper procedure and inform the range master. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 "Same caliber" was removed a while back. Caused a lot of hassle between the people that thought it meant 'bullet diameter' versus the 'what it says on the headstamp' folks for no reason. I've switched guns at a Nationals before when the sights became useless on one. Not a big deal-- flag down the RM, let them check it out and away you go. Report to chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I didn't think calibers had to match which is good, since my Limted blaster is my backup to my Open blaster....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P. Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Also don't forget that if you have to go to your back up gun, you need the permission of the RM BEFORE you switch. you will probably have to go to the chrono again also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Calibers don't have to match, nor do the sights or brand of gun have to be identical. The gun just has to meet the division requirements, and all guns fall into Open division. You do need permission before you switch--just telling one of the RM's that you already switched is not going to be a good thing. It's pretty simple, though: have someone call one of the RM's, show them both guns, tell us why you are switching, and chrono the new gun (both guns if possible, but sometimes that isn't possible). One thing to note, though: you can't switch back. Good luck. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The gun switching rules have gotten a lot easier over the years. One of the many improvements we've seen in the rulebook Troy, where in the rules does it say you can't switch back? ?? Obviously, you have to get permission, and the RM should be exceptionally skeptical about the situation... but I can gin up a few potential scenarios where allowing the shooter to switch back could be the right answer (requires multiple gun problems, including a catastrophic one on the backup gun).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The gun switching rules have gotten a lot easier over the years. One of the many improvements we've seen in the rulebook Troy, where in the rules does it say you can't switch back? ?? Obviously, you have to get permission, and the RM should be exceptionally skeptical about the situation... but I can gin up a few potential scenarios where allowing the shooter to switch back could be the right answer (requires multiple gun problems, including a catastrophic one on the backup gun).... Well, after looking again, it doesn't. I thought I saw that in the book, but I may have been thinking of something else. My bad. You can switch back. I'm sure glad you caught that trick answer I put in there, Dave. Yeah, that's the ticket... Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 what would be the penalty for not informing the RM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 what would be the penalty for not informing the RM? 5.1.8... (hint, it points at 10.6.... and anything pointing at 10.3-10.7 is not a happy situation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't see anything that prevents you from switching back, but it would be odd. A scenario might be where gun #1 fails on one day, switch to #2. You fix #1 at some point (something like replacing a scope with one you bought from a vendor and then had a chance to zero) and then #2 fails at a later point. It would be a huge pain and involve lots of time at the chrono, but it seems like it should be within the rules to do so. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 It is within the rules to swap back. I was thinking of something else when I posted that--not the rule, per se, but a test question I saw somewhere. Sorry for the confusion. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammowaster Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The gun just has to meet the division requirements, and all guns fall into Open division. Troy Are you saying if you switch guns you go into open automatically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The gun just has to meet the division requirements, and all guns fall into Open division. Troy Are you saying if you switch guns you go into open automatically? No. The original question asked about open division. If you're shooting open, you could finish the match with a Glock 26 or a J-frame if your open gun fails. Troy was making the point that the replacement handgun needs to meet division criteria..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 What happens if you don't make major with your back up, but you've made major with your primary? So you've shot 12 stages major and now you have to finish the match minor... Can you be scored major on a few stages and minor on a few, or is it all or nothing with the scoring system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 What happens if you don't make major with your back up, but you've made major with your primary? You score minor for the whole match. Even if you later switch back to your primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 What happens if you don't make major with your back up, but you've made major with your primary?So you've shot 12 stages major and now you have to finish the match minor... Can you be scored major on a few stages and minor on a few, or is it all or nothing with the scoring system? I started a related thread a while back. I don't agree with it, but it's all or nothing right now. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=988533 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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