Local match safety poll

[DonT]

Just wondering what concerns y'all have about certain things you see at your local matches that make you "pucker up"

...and what can be done to solve the problem.

I'm going to have to say ammo.

We seem to have had a few instances recently where some are not paying attention when they are loading their ammo. Getting some squibs and double charges w/blowups and dropped guns.

Had a guy that bought a bunch of somebody elses loaded ammo and would have squibs 2 or 3 times during a match. After a few weeks of this the RO finally called his ammo unsafe and wouldn't let him continue to use it.

Had another guy that comes to the matches 15 minutes after it's began and says he had to rush and load ammo before the match. Guess who's gun blew...

So what can we do?

I'm going to talk to this guy this weekend. I'll try to explain to him diplomatically, that loading ammo is not something you want to do when you're in a rush to get out the door. You need to have complete focus on the task at hand with no distractions. You don't have to load 300 rds. in 15 minutes just because the press manufacturer says you can. And finally I'll explain to him that he is not only endangering himself, but also anyone who may be standing close to him.

It get's old...bring ammo that works.

[Steve J]

I voted for ammo and gun handling. We have a large percentage of new shooters, casual shooters and ancient shooters with a high turn over of the first two. Careless gun handling drives me crazy. We also have had a few careless reloaders producing multiple squibs each in a single match. We solved that by setting a blanket standard that is briefed at every shooter's meeting. After the 2nd squib, your ammo is deemed unsafe and you are automatically DQ'd. We've only had one squib since that was applied. The longer I do this the more I believe that being DQ'd, not the threat, actually getting DQ'd is the greatest motivation for some to improvement.

[jkrispies]

I shoot matches at two ranges: one is a high-end IPSC/Steel Challenge range, and the other is a non-sanctioned range that throws monthly discipline matches. I've pretty much stopped shooting the non-sanctioned matches because of the number of new shooters (or worse, old shooters who think they know their guns but whose skills aren't any better than a new shooter) who are coming out to do the matches and need to be watched like a hawk, even when they're not on the firing line. I've always looked at the non-sanctioned matches as an ideal place to bring a new competitor's skill level up to a par where they could walk into a "real" IPSC/IDPA match and be safe and competitive, but I'm seeing too many folks who haven't learned basic safe gun handling skills. #1 Keep the finger off the trigger till it's bang time. #2 the 180 rule. Who needs a #3 when those too aren't being born in mind enough?

[DonT]

Good replies so far...keep 'em coming.

One of the guys I mentioned, is a new shooter. He's been shooting with us a couple of months. He's new to reloading too so I'll also be asking him if he needs help with that or if he understands what he's doing. We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

[Nik Habicht]

We solved that by setting a blanket standard that is briefed at every shooter's meeting. After the 2nd squib, your ammo is deemed unsafe and you are automatically DQ'd.

...and you realize that if the competitor has different ammo --- factory, something loaded to different specs --- in the car, that you need to let him continue with a swapout of ammo, right? 'Cause that's not grounds to DQ the competitor; just to remove the ammo from the match.....

[uscbigdawg]

Are biggest problem is probably AD's.

Rich

[Nik Habicht]

I'd have to say that i probably see 180 violations more than any other --- and I don't see many of those. In this area we're fortunate that Old Bridge runs a practice match twice a month on their indoor range, and uses it pretty much as "USPSA/Steel School," so that when we see these competitors on the outdoor range, they're already fairly sharp. When we do get new competitors at an outdoor match for the first time, we squad them with an experienced group of competitors who have proven themselves capable of mentoring --- and we usually get someone to claim ownership of the new shooter for the match. That allows for teaching those things that the safety check only touched on....

Combine that with an emphasis of "You must learn to crawl before you can walk or run" and it usually goes well......

[jkrispies]

We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

Yeah, and this is why I've supported the unsanctioned matches as much as I have-- I was a discipline leader for two years and am now the club's vice-president. We need a place for the new shooter to be introduced to safe gun handling, competitions, and new techniques in a more newbie friendly place than a match with serious shooters who will call for a DQ and kick them off the range when they make a mistake rather than turning it into a learning experience. I guess my personal issue with this is that my stress level at work has been gradually climbing for the past few years so I'm looking at my match time as a place to relax rather than be the "eagle eye" as I have been. I dunno... just me.

[CocoBolo]

Any 180 violation is a problem. I was bending into my bag to get some ammo, looked up and the shooter on the stage was running with his gun pointed at me with his finger on the trigger. No I was not wearing a brown shirt, I definatly moved faster than he did. He was DQed.

I RO major matches DoubleTap, SpaceCity so far this year. 1 DQ at DoubleTap and 2 at SpaceCity. 2 each firing out of the park and one 180 violation. One was an open gun that got hung in the port on exit with finger on trigger the other was racking the slide with finger on trigger mag full of mud.

In local matches as an RO we try to coach shooters, but when they put lives in danger they go home. One local shooter I know was DQ'ed from 5 matches in a couple of months, he is still shooting and has not been sent home in some time. Its a learning process some learn faster than others.

Safe Shooting to all.

[maineshootah]

Well, I cast the only vote for equipment.

I see a lot of folks running separate "uncle mikes" belts slung over their hip, or holsters without covering the trigger guard, or cool 'tactical' thigh rigs.

The whole draw / holster work is a skill set that most have never practiced.

All the newbies rush out and get what they think is "cool", then come to the range and realize what they have doesn't work.

A close second would be gun handling.

[wide45]

AD's, and it is not the new guys.

[SteveZ]

For my section, I'm tasked with tracking DQ's. I just did a quick scan for the last 12 months and its pretty evenly split between 180's and AD's

[DonT]

We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

Yeah, and this is why I've supported the unsanctioned matches as much as I have-- I was a discipline leader for two years and am now the club's vice-president. We need a place for the new shooter to be introduced to safe gun handling, competitions, and new techniques in a more newbie friendly place than a match with serious shooters who will call for a DQ and kick them off the range when they make a mistake rather than turning it into a learning experience. I guess my personal issue with this is that my stress level at work has been gradually climbing for the past few years so I'm looking at my match time as a place to relax rather than be the "eagle eye" as I have been. I dunno... just me.

I completely understand where you're coming from and I also feel like this on occasion. But I try hard not too. I try to recall the patience that everyone showed to me when I started. It's a tough call. Most folks can learn but some will just never get it.

[DonT]

For my section, I'm tasked with tracking DQ's. I just did a quick scan for the last 12 months and its pretty evenly split between 180's and AD's

That's interesting...Thanks

[larry cazes]

We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

Yeah, and this is why I've supported the unsanctioned matches as much as I have-- I was a discipline leader for two years and am now the club's vice-president. We need a place for the new shooter to be introduced to safe gun handling, competitions, and new techniques in a more newbie friendly place than a match with serious shooters who will call for a DQ and kick them off the range when they make a mistake rather than turning it into a learning experience. I guess my personal issue with this is that my stress level at work has been gradually climbing for the past few years so I'm looking at my match time as a place to relax rather than be the "eagle eye" as I have been. I dunno... just me.

A DQ is often the best learning experience of all. Seriously.

[JThompson]

We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

Yeah, and this is why I've supported the unsanctioned matches as much as I have-- I was a discipline leader for two years and am now the club's vice-president. We need a place for the new shooter to be introduced to safe gun handling, competitions, and new techniques in a more newbie friendly place than a match with serious shooters who will call for a DQ and kick them off the range when they make a mistake rather than turning it into a learning experience. I guess my personal issue with this is that my stress level at work has been gradually climbing for the past few years so I'm looking at my match time as a place to relax rather than be the "eagle eye" as I have been. I dunno... just me.

A DQ is often the best learning experience of all. Seriously.

What raises your BP more... sending someone home chastised, or calling an ambulance because someone has been shot? That's extreme, but with guns you don't get any mulligans.

What I see most is people clearing a jam on the clock with the finger inside the guard.

Edited May 22, 2009 by JThompson

[Steve J]

We solved that by setting a blanket standard that is briefed at every shooter's meeting. After the 2nd squib, your ammo is deemed unsafe and you are automatically DQ'd.

...and you realize that if the competitor has different ammo --- factory, something loaded to different specs --- in the car, that you need to let him continue with a swapout of ammo, right? 'Cause that's not grounds to DQ the competitor; just to remove the ammo from the match.....

Part of the briefing is that the shooter should switch ammo after the first squib, because after the second he will be DQ'd from the rest of the match on our range.

[DonT]

We have several new shooters and they DO need to be watched like a hawk. But, we need to help them along. Not just coming down on them when they screw up but also helping them understand that safety is THE most important thing while loading ammo, handling a gun, or running through a stage. We want 'em to come back, we want 'em to have fun, but nobody likes to shoot with folks who are unsafe.

Yeah, and this is why I've supported the unsanctioned matches as much as I have-- I was a discipline leader for two years and am now the club's vice-president. We need a place for the new shooter to be introduced to safe gun handling, competitions, and new techniques in a more newbie friendly place than a match with serious shooters who will call for a DQ and kick them off the range when they make a mistake rather than turning it into a learning experience. I guess my personal issue with this is that my stress level at work has been gradually climbing for the past few years so I'm looking at my match time as a place to relax rather than be the "eagle eye" as I have been. I dunno... just me.

A DQ is often the best learning experience of all. Seriously.

What raises your BP more... sending someone home chastised, or calling an ambulance because someone has been shot? That's extreme, but with guns you don't get any mulligans.

What I see most is people clearing a jam on the clock with the finger inside the guard.

Don't get me wrong, if it's a DQ'able offense they get DQ'ed. And yes, I agree it's a great learning experience. The guy I spoke of earlier was DQ'ed for dropping his gun.

I was talking more along the lines of bad ammo.

Now, back to the original question...

[Matt Griffin]

I see a lot of squibs, thank goodness that they almost always jam the gun, because shooter awareness of a squib is only about 50% in my experience, half will sit there and crank on the trigger, rack the slide, etc. after the squib.

H.

[HighVelocity]

New shooter, finger on the trigger. If I had a dollar for every time I yelled finger over the last 3 years, I'd shoot free for 6 months.

[kevin c]

DQ's at my home range are a mix, but my impression is that AD's are the leader.

180's are a bit rarer since our safety committee walks each stage before the match and points out 180 traps that the MD didn't already catch the afternoon before (when the stages were first being set up).

Not too many squibs that I can recall.

Edited May 29, 2009 by kevin c

[BayouSlide]

I don't know if I've seen or heard of more than two ADs over the last three years shooting local matches with at least four clubs...but we had two 180 DQs at the last match alone, one a new shooter, one more experienced. So 180 violations are far and away the greater problem in my experience.

Curtis

[dcarter]

We see a lot of new shooters at our club and more often than any other DQ we see is for 180's. I've only seen maybe 3 squibs since I've been shooting and no blown up pistols.

[Chris iliff]

I voted 180. Someone explain to me "Gun Handling", that's a fairly broad term, wouldn't that fall into the 180 or vice versa? Or, is "Gun Handling" just ..... finger in trigger guard and dropped guns?

[Zebp45]

I voted for gun handling. The newbies and some of the oldies are equally bad.

+1 for what Steve J said.