DOUBLE TAP CHAMPIONSHIP 2010

[COMATZD]

Hey, you too, Dan. We had fun regardless of the damn weather.

BTW, be sure to bring major ammo for that gun next year.

Chris

That darn steel just didn't like me!

[cripple]

Many thanks to the great folks at DTC for a great match! I enjoyed watching everyone shoot in such harsh conditions.

Now on to the wheelchair repairs I need to make from Blake dragging me through the mud!

Ah...memories..

[jimbob_texas]

Now that I'm awake and back with the living I'd like to say a HUGE thanks to squad 23. That was easily one of the finest squads I've ever had the pleasure of shooting with!

Right back atcha, Josh! It was great meeting you and watching you shoot - congrats on your win, you did great! We did have the most fabulously awesome squad, didn't we? That's the only reason I kept my frozen butt out there, we still had a good time in spite of everything. See ya next year.

I heard there were a bunch of wise-asses in that squad. I could've sworn I saw a dog stuck to a fire hydrant on Sunday morning...

[jimbob_texas]

Now that I have finally thawed out...

Though the weather didn't cooperate AGAIN for DTC, I know one thing - I will never miss this match, no matter when it is held. The stages and props were awesome, all of the staff is always top-notch, the prize table was great and I have never seen a group of people work harder to make a match run as efficiently as possible despite all the obstacles. Did I have a good match? Lord no, I couldn't feel my hands most of the time and I'm very thankful I didn't drop my gun. But I still had a great time - if I'm going to freeze my butt off, freezing it off with good friends is the way to go. I'll be writing my thank you e-mails to all the sponsors today too - Steve did a great job on the prize table.

I have worked this match the last few years - back in January I asked Robert if he had enough staff volunteers I would like to just shoot this year. Before I left the range yesterday I found Robert, thanked him for a great match, profusely apologized for not working this year (I would have shot with the staff in great weather!) and begged him to let me work next year. Lesson learned!

Having RO'd major matches with both paper and palms, I could not imagine trying to score this match on paper. The howling wind, snow, sleet and mud would have been way worse than the delays caused by the palms and printers. Are the printers a pain? Yeah, a bit. Did the cold temps maybe play a part in some of the palm problems? Probably, I know my camera wasn't happy with the temps either. Palm scoring is the way of the future, and though it needs improvement, I am willing to work with the few issues to keep moving in that direction.

See y'all next year!

What Trixie said. I will never tempt fate like that again. I was flattered to hear from folks who were disappointed we didn't RO, and felt guilty that I wanted to "shoot the match and enjoy it." That'll learn me.

Squad 23 rocked (hey, that's punny!), and kept things fun. Did the weather stink? Yes. Yes, it did. So what? Could scoring have been done better? Not bloody likely. Consider how many people picked and chose when and how they'd shoot. I dare you to do better.

Porter's genius as a stage designer remains unmatched, and the dedication of the staff was textbook. Thank you so much to all, and to my girls who fed us during the day. Squad 23, you were awesome - thanks for the great weekend.

[Mick]

I learned a valuable lesson about human physiology and shooting. I had a colonoscopy less than 24 hours before we shot the RO match. So, if the Doctor tells me I can't drive, what about shooting like we do? He didn't figure that!

That first day was a bit sloppy (go figure) but Sunday was better. I wonder what they used for the anesthestic???

I polled a few of the "old guys" that came through our stage about have a colonoscopy. NOT FUN but they could save your life!!

No more palms!!!

[XRe]

I wonder what they used for the anesthestic???

Most likely Versed, Fentanyl, and/or Mr. Jackson's favorite... Propofol. All fast acting, short half life stuff - but it wouldn't surprise me that it'd leave you kind of out of it the next day

[Mick]

That would explain some things from Friday night too!!!

[dqshooter]

I first need to say thank you for all the RO's that worked so hard thru the bad weather conditions. Their patients with the scoring was unbelievable. I learn so much after each and every match. This year I learned that:

#1. You can never have enough good ROs. The ROs we had this year did a great job in a bad situation and did not complain. They are top notch folks and deserve your respect.

#2. No matter what you plan and how much you plan for there are always going to be problems. I am undecided on the whole Palm scoring system. Some times it works great and some times it doesn't. Lee did a great job keeping things running in extreme conditions. Electronics are always goint to have problems in the cold.

#3. Sunday tensions where pretty high and I am no exception to that. I had three competitors that thought it was OK to scream at RO's and me when I arrived for a rule question. I don't like being screamed at by anyone. there is just no call for it. Yes I told them to shut up, that sounds harsh(I tried to be nice first, unfortunatly some folks don't understand how to be nice) on reflection probably shouldn't have said it, but I won't appologize. There is no need for competitors in our sport to act like this, no one forced you to come to the match.

#4. Robert and I have absolutely no control of the weather, who could predict a year ago when the dates where picked that we would have snow on the first day of spring. I do believe that the shooter from this forum voted and sent in their oppinions about when we should have the match. We will be moving it to later in the year.

#5. I am aware it was cold and you needed worm clothes, I would like to have my keys that where in the pocket of my jacket that someone barrowed. I don't care about the jacket just drop the keeys in an envelope and mail them to me or the range, Hell send them COD I will even pay for it. If you tossed them in the trash on the range please let me know, mayby I could retreive them.

Thank all of you for attending and supporting this match, please remember to thank the sponsors for the contributions and remeber them when you need something. We have a great group of folks that sponsor our match and many others around the country. Some of the sponsors from last year didn't return and we all know that times are tough, they can't sponsor every match. I posted a list earlier on this thread for the sponsors I would gr3eatly appreciate a shout out to them saying thank you.

Match results will be posted when they are posted and not before. There has been some issue to workout, sometimes that is just the way it works. Robert and I are meeting in a couple of hours to wash out the match and see what we can do better for next year.(we have no control of the weather)

Steven, thanks

[Resjudicata]

I first need to say thank you for all the RO's that worked so hard thru the bad weather conditions. Their patients with the scoring was unbelievable. I learn so much after each and every match. This year I learned that:

#1. You can never have enough good ROs. The ROs we had this year did a great job in a bad situation and did not complain. They are top notch folks and deserve your respect.

#2. No matter what you plan and how much you plan for there are always going to be problems. I am undecided on the whole Palm scoring system. Some times it works great and some times it doesn't. Lee did a great job keeping things running in extreme conditions. Electronics are always goint to have problems in the cold.

#3. Sunday tensions where pretty high and I am no exception to that. I had three competitors that thought it was OK to scream at RO's and me when I arrived for a rule question. I don't like being screamed at by anyone. there is just no call for it. Yes I told them to shut up, that sounds harsh(I tried to be nice first, unfortunatly some folks don't understand how to be nice) on reflection probably shouldn't have said it, but I won't appologize. There is no need for competitors in our sport to act like this, no one forced you to come to the match.

#4. Robert and I have absolutely no control of the weather, who could predict a year ago when the dates where picked that we would have snow on the first day of spring. I do believe that the shooter from this forum voted and sent in their oppinions about when we should have the match. We will be moving it to later in the year.

#5. I am aware it was cold and you needed worm clothes, I would like to have my keys that where in the pocket of my jacket that someone barrowed. I don't care about the jacket just drop the keeys in an envelope and mail them to me or the range, Hell send them COD I will even pay for it. If you tossed them in the trash on the range please let me know, mayby I could retreive them.

Thank all of you for attending and supporting this match, please remember to thank the sponsors for the contributions and remeber them when you need something. We have a great group of folks that sponsor our match and many others around the country. Some of the sponsors from last year didn't return and we all know that times are tough, they can't sponsor every match. I posted a list earlier on this thread for the sponsors I would gr3eatly appreciate a shout out to them saying thank you.

Match results will be posted when they are posted and not before. There has been some issue to workout, sometimes that is just the way it works. Robert and I are meeting in a couple of hours to wash out the match and see what we can do better for next year.(we have no control of the weather)

Steven, thanks

Steve,

You and Robert did a great job. I think the scores got out faster this year than they have before when doing it manually. Also, you guys obviously made sure that the RO's were properly trained to use this Palm equipment and software. That is good to see. I think Lee Neel's palm software is the better one out there right now. USPSA needs to move to it universally.

One thing I would suggest to anyone using Palm scoring for a match is to tell everyone via the match booklet and shooter's meetings that they are responsible for keeping their scoring printout from each stage in case there is a problem. Then if a score issue crops up the staff can look at the shooter's printout and if the shooter doesn't have their printout then a 0 for the stage. I know that sounds harsh but I think it is only fair.

Another "GOOD JOB" goes out to the RO's and staff for another great match. Even if you can't control the weather. ALL of the RO's I saw did a fantastic job and put a lot of effort into running the stages quickly, efficiently and nicely.

It's just too bad Steve can't control the weather.

Chris

[XRe]

#3. Sunday tensions where pretty high and I am no exception to that.

Are you ever low tension?

I had three competitors that thought it was OK to scream at RO's and me when I arrived for a rule question. I don't like being screamed at by anyone. there is just no call for it. Yes I told them to shut up, that sounds harsh(I tried to be nice first, unfortunatly some folks don't understand how to be nice) on reflection probably shouldn't have said it, but I won't appologize. There is no need for competitors in our sport to act like this, no one forced you to come to the match.

There's never any call for that... Yeah, tensions can run high at a match... but there's never any call to yell about it. Shooters need to remember that the ROs out there are not being paid to be there - they're human beings and aren't perfect, and mistakes can be made. The best way to get them resolved is to remain calm... being an ass isn't going to win you any points. Some ROs (I didn't run into any of these at the DTC this year, BTW) need to remember that being an RO doesn't give you license to be an ass to the shooters, either - and should also remember that they are fallible and might make mistakes... and that shooters are going to be amped up a little bit on adrenaline and whatnot when they talk to them post-run. Calm goes a loooong way for both sides of the fence...

Telling them to shut up was probably deserved But, you can probably figure out something better to say that will make them feel like even more of an ass next time...

There has been some issue to workout, sometimes that is just the way it works. Robert and I are meeting in a couple of hours to wash out the match and see what we can do better for next year.(we have no control of the weather)

My first suggestion would be to learn to control the weather.

Keep doing what you do. This year was the best one, yet.

[shootingchef]

Rod Cassidy wrote the palm scoring program, Lee just uses it, very well, I might add.

[John Heiter]

If telling them to "shut up" is too harsh, you may want to think about taking a page from Doc at the Gator Classic. He buys a handful of pacifiers before the match and wears them on a string around his neck to hand out when people start to forget that it's a game and that we play it to have fun. I think it has almost become a badge of honor for some to earn one.

[BayouSlide]

please remember to thank the sponsors for the contributions and remeber them when you need something. We have a great group of folks that sponsor our match and many others around the country. Some of the sponsors from last year didn't return and we all know that times are tough, they can't sponsor every match. I posted a list earlier on this thread for the sponsors I would gr3eatly appreciate a shout out to them saying thank you.

The last of my e-mails to all the sponsors for my prize package and to STI (don't I wish ) went out this morning, along with an order to one of the sponsors.

Folks, the sponsors really do pay attention to a brief thank you when they are deciding what match to support next year. I wish I had a nickle or two for every time I received back an e-mail thanking me for my thank-you and remarking how few they receive

And thank you to all the competitors who took the time to thank the ROs for days of hard work. We're happy to help you achieve your goals, keep you safe and attempt to keep the playing field as level as possible, but a thank you and a positive attitude is always appreciated. In general, a great group of people went through Stage 4 and nearly all held it together well, even when things didn't go their way

Curtis

Edited: 'cause I hate typos!

Edited March 24, 2010 by BayouSlide

[Pat Miles]

Truth be known, the RO's are paid to be there. They receive a compensation package (free match fee, motel and lunch at the range). Is it enough to truly compensate the RO's for three days of work especially in the ugly weather that has plagued the DT for the last three years? Not as far as I am concerned. What makes up for that is the love and dedication to our sport and for this my hat is off to the good folks who step forward and make this match possible for the rest of us.

In regards to shooters screaming at the RO's, I don't care who they were or what their classification might be, if the severity would have warranted it, I would have sent them home for unsportsmanlike conduct (10.6). I don't care what the conditions were like for the shooters. They were the same for the RO who has to stay out there working shooter after shooter all day. That being said, if per chance, the RM reversed my decision I would have to give serious thought to staying or ROing the match again. Again, depending on the severity of the situation.

Yes, I have RO'd the DT. Three years ago. The weather was shitty then also. Went back last year as just a competitor and the weather was shitty again. I stayed home this year and glad of it.

CYa

Pat

[BayouSlide]

Truth be known, the RO's are paid to be there. They receive a compensation package (free match fee, motel and lunch at the range).

Not to quibble, but we did not receive a free match fee, but a welcome discount.

Curtis

[The Antichrome]

Folks, the sponsors really do pay attention to a brief thank you when they are deciding what match to support next year. I wish I had a nickle or two for every time I received back an e-mail thanking me for my thank-you and remarking how few they receive

A big +1. This is especially true for any non-firearms / accessories sponsors. If they are not aware that they got attention, they have no reason to return.

I've sponsored a few matches and I can tell you, the thank you's are extremely important.

[Pat Miles]

Truth be known, the RO's are paid to be there. They receive a compensation package (free match fee, motel and lunch at the range).

Not to quibble, but we did not receive a free match fee, but a welcome discount.

Curtis

Wow, things have changed in the last three years!

CYa,

Pat

[thegirl]

Folks, the sponsors really do pay attention to a brief thank you when they are deciding what match to support next year. I wish I had a nickle or two for every time I received back an e-mail thanking me for my thank-you and remarking how few they receive

A big +1. This is especially true for any non-firearms / accessories sponsors. If they are not aware that they got attention, they have no reason to return.

I've sponsored a few matches and I can tell you, the thank you's are extremely important.

I too have received several replies back from sponsors that I sent thank you notes to - it really does make a difference. One even asked if I would send him a match book - and several expressed their sympathies at the weather... I also thanked Steve for giving us a list of sponsors, that made it very easy to go down the list.

[BayouSlide]

Pat, you were probably worth more than me

Curtis

[dcbfluff]

I didn't see any of the "unpleasant" instances Steve mentions. FWIW, on stage 11 I didn't see anything from the shooters except good sportsmanship and polite, safe behavior. Did I have people question calls? Yes, but in all cases they were polite, and as it turned out, when I gave it another look a couple of times they were right (C vs. D type things). My stage called for the shooter to Load and then move forward and place gun on a shelf in order to Make Ready: most of them either looked me in the eye or in some way checked before they moved forward with a hot gun (not required by the rules since I had given LAMR, but courteous and appreciated). I had a "Facing Uprange" start, and the bemused smiles and shrugs I got as folks made ready and faced me in that bitter cold wind did a lot to help keep me warm.

[Pat Miles]

Pat, you were probably worth more than me

Curtis

Not according to my ex wife...but that's a story for another time.

CYa,

Pat

[HI5-O]

So...when is next years match

[lneel]

I bet it won't be in March! May/June I would think....though nothing guarantees perfect weather....it is Texas! If you don't like the weather, just wait a day or so....

Lee

[Mick]

"It's just too bad Steve can't control the weather."

There are times when he thinks he actually can!!!

He takes his meds and it goes away.....

[Thomas H]

I initially had a large post I was going to make regarding some of the things that have been said regarding competitors "screaming" and such, but I decided it wasn't worth it---as thus far, most of the people replying weren't there, and it won't really make any difference at this point.

I'll just say two things:

1) One person's idea of "screaming" may be other people's idea of "yelling loudly as they don't have powered ear protection, just regular, and the winds were really high", and

2) The young shooter with me wondered out loud why the RM over-reacted so much to the _laughing_ (true, loudly spoken) comments by the shooter, including, in her words, why the RM "was being so rude".

And yes, I was there. I had no comment to make during the entire time, so it was interesting to watch how a mistake in communication (initially, the shooter was yelling to be heard over the wind, and was being humorous over his request for a reshoot, and the RM heard "yelling at him" and demands instead of requests) turned into a argumentative confrontation as the RM pointed a finger at a competitor and yelled at them to back off, then yelled at the rest of the squad "Show me the rule in the book. Got that? Show me it in the book!" This was after several people on the squad tried to explain (yes, yelling loudly) the situation after the RM had yelled at the initial competitor.

Many failures in communication, on both sides. The initial competitor wasn't meaning to be confrontational---he was just loud, and laughing as he asked for a reshoot. But after a long day fixing problems, the RM didn't hear it that way. When the RM reacted, several people on the squad (who should have stayed out of it) tried to explain, but since they all were talking loudly, the RM just heard yelling directed at him, which made the situation worse. It went downhill from there, including when a shooter showed the RM the exact rule in the book applicable to the situation, and the RM said "Yes, of course it is a re-shoot!" ---which is what everyone knew in the first place, but everyone thought the other person disagreed with.

So, for those who weren't there and have no idea what happened: Shooters didn't mean to yell AT the RM. The RM reacted to handle what he thought was confrontational competitors who needed to settle down. People watching were wondering why the RM over-reacted. The RM was wondering why everyone had gone insane and was yelling at him. Everyone thought the other person was arguing over a clear rules call.

And to top it all off---the RM had been initially called for a calibration that was now unnecessary as the popper had fallen over due to the wind, and when the RM got there, the shooter asked for a calibration on a fallen popper as a joke---which started the whole thing.

Apparently I _am_ going to post a lot, instead of just two things.

So: Indeed, shooters should stay calm. There is no reason ever to scream at an official (or _anyone_) at a match. In the same vein, range officials should stay calm. Lack of calm on everyone's part leads to poor communication, whereupon we get situations like this, in which both sides end up wondering what the hell is wrong with the other guy.

Other people who are chiming in with "they should have been DQ'ed for unsportsmanlike conduct" and such---might want to wait until they know details before jumping to conclusions.

[Edited to fix typos that turned a sentence into gibberish.] -TH

Edited March 24, 2010 by Thomas H