Sarge Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hey all. At a recent steel match I was thrown for a loop by an RO. I can not see how the rule can be any more plain, "“Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must state “Not Ready”. It is suggested that when the competitor is ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer. This RO waited for me to make a positive response. Finally someone in the crowd said,"I think he must be ready". The RO finally asked again and I said"ready". Then he started the timer. I am not trying to start any arguments or point out someone elses shortcomings but even as a new guy to the games we play I already have a rhythm established and this broke it big time. Is this a common enough occurance that I should just make it a habit to nod or say "ready" or should I look at this as a rarity or fluke and brain dump it? Thanks all. I just want to learn to do this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hey all. At a recent steel match I was thrown for a loop by an RO. I can not see how the rule can be any more plain, "“Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitorindicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must state “Not Ready”. It is suggested that when the competitor is ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer. This RO waited for me to make a positive response. Finally someone in the crowd said,"I think he must be ready". The RO finally asked again and I said"ready". Then he started the timer. I am not trying to start any arguments or point out someone elses shortcomings but even as a new guy to the games we play I already have a rhythm established and this broke it big time. Is this a common enough occurance that I should just make it a habit to nod or say "ready" or should I look at this as a rarity or fluke and brain dump it? Thanks all. I just want to learn to do this right. In some places I've shot the ROs have become accustom to the shooters saying ready or some sort of confirmation that they are ready. So when a out of towner shoots and doesn't say anything they just wait or keep asking. I had just the opposite happen to me a few matches ago. I was running a guy and asked are you ready, got no response and gave the stand by and he turned around and said, "I didn't say I was ready". I politely told him, by not saying anything....you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin D Wolverton Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It all depends on the RO. While the rulebook states that lack of a response means that your are by definition ready, some RO's like to have a response. I think some of them are afraid you didn't hear them (which kinda makes sense, with people shooting in other areas of the range, hearing protection and such). It's kind of a weird situation in the first place, but it works most of the time. I personally don't give one. I'll stand there all day Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It's not the way it should be done, but I've run into it many times. I've taken to nodding my head in the affirm to keep from standing there all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 You are right in reading the rule- but some clubs are different. At my club, we usually ask the competitor to give a nod when ready. If a shooter doesn't like that, we won't ask him/her anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I've appaently run the timer too much around here since I know who's going to nod, who's going to speak, and who's not going to speak or nod....... Personally I'm a nodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sand, You were right, but get used to it. If you let stuff like that get in your head...well, you lose. There will be plenty of such ditractions. Learn to pay them no mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Looks like the nods have it. Makes sense. That is why I ask my questions here. Thanks everybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 its Steel and so you get five starts on the same stage. Just tell the RO that when you put your hands in position and he Says "Are You Ready" that you don't want to respond with a nod or verbal. & you will only respond if you are not ready. If the Ro gets the call wrong and skips the Stand -By part just don't move at the beep. Don't move anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hey all. At a recent steel match... I'm guessing it was not a USPSA match. Why would you expect them to hold to USPSA rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hey all. At a recent steel match... I'm guessing it was not a USPSA match. Why would you expect them to hold to USPSA rules? Be Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rusert Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just to drift a bit, I've had the inverse of that happen. Stood in the start box, facing downrange, going throught the stage in my head, feigning shooting at targets, going through the reloading motions, for at least two or three minutes. And, all the time, the RO was standing behind me, doing nothing. I finally turned around and asked him if he was ready to RO me. He was in a total daze. Funny. He finally said LAMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 ...feigning shooting at targets, going through the reloading motions... I'll let you do your thing. When you settle down, we'll get started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have often wondered about this and since I haven't been shooting that long, where did this "shooter, give me a nod if your ready" and "shooter, indicates that they are ready" stuff come from? I mean, I have read, the steel rules, idpa and uspsa rules, none of the current (within last 2 years) mention any phrases that I often hear. Sorry to drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Another thing to do if you want more time is to keep you hand on the gun... If I need a bit more time to get settled I just leave my hand on my gun or grab two points and let go a few times. When I'm ready I drop the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Another thing to do if you want more time is to keep you hand on the gun... If I need a bit more time to get settled I just leave my hand on my gun or grab two points and let go a few times. When I'm ready I drop the hand. I do something similar. I'll keep my hand on the gun, take a deep breath, put my support hand wherever it needs to be and then exhale and take another breath as I'm taking my hand off the gun and putting it wherever it needs to be. Like a lot of folks, it seems, I give a slight nod at the "Are you ready". I've seen some really good shooters always reply "I'm ready". I think doing either makes for a more consistent situation. If the RO expects a nod/reply, they got one. If they don't expect one, they're still going to go directly to "stand by" if you've nodded/replied. Either way nobody is in doubt as to whether it's time to hear a beep/buzzer or not. That doesn't address the shooter who expects the RO to wait for their reply, but nothing's perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I resent the fact that I have developed the "nod" on every match. If I didn't it seems so many RO's that don't get the rules would not start me. Its become a habit now and has had nothing to do with my stage performance but it shouldn't have to happen. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I resent the fact that I have developed the "nod" on every match. If I didn't it seems so many RO's that don't get the rules would not start me. Its become a habit now and has had nothing to do with my stage performance but it shouldn't have to happen. Oh well. Preaching to the choir my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stony Lane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 At a local club steel match (not Steel Challenge) there is no "rule book." The guys running the stages are usually not certified RO's, SO's, etc. A nod would be an acceptable courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Oh, I know a few shooters that are more than willing to verbally rip apart someone who is ROing and not following the standard commands. I have done it once or twice myself. I try to be nice about it, but have asked someone else RO me after asking someone to use the correct commands and they continue to use some screwed up verbage. I find those RO's tape and pick up brass really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I look at it like this - at a local match, is it really that big a deal if someone deviates slightly from the prescribed range commands? Obviously, there's a limit to how far they can differ, but does it really matter that much? As long as they give me "Standby" sometime before the beep (hopefully, with some delay between the two), I'm usually good. At a major match, though, I'd expect a little more professionalism and adherence to the rule book... I give a nod, too, but I give it as I'm headed to the start position - its the last part of my pre-stage routine. If they can't figure that out, well... And, does it really hurt you to give an affirmative response? Build it into your pre-stage routine, and it won't mess with you head - it'll actually become a "safety blanket" response... Ok, all that said, I'd still prefer that anyone running the box (at a local or major match) know the rules and use the proper range commands (including not expecting an answer to "Are You Ready?"). They aren't that hard to know, and you never know when you'll run into a shooter that doesn't understand the local dialect, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John2A Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 OK I have to chime in here. I does bug the crap out of me to get the wrong commands at a local or big match. I took the RO class a year or so ago with George Jones and he would repeatedly stop us if we gave the wrong commands. I have the commands written out on a sticky attached to my PC at work and see them every day. If I get a new shooter while I am RO'ing I always tell them what commands they will get from me and their reaction to those commands. After seeing them around for a while I always hear I really like it when you RO me. I know exactly what is expected and when so and so gives the command I get confused. When some of the guys went to the Nationals lat year I tried to get them used to hearing just the commands no banter. They said that the RO's there were the same way nothing was said but the range commands. What really gets in my crawl is when an RO says something like slow down get your points, or something other than MR. It really does throw me out of my routine. I watch for the breath and hand coming off the gun and in the correct start position before Are you Ready. I think this is one of the simplest rules that is totally abused in this game and should be one of the easiest to follow. Thanks for letting me rant for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 As an RO, I try (and usually manage) to deliver the proper range in the correct sequence, at the appropriate times.... As a Competitor, I decided long ago that it was easier to verbally acknowledge "Are you Ready?" than it was to have a fight about it, or have a delay. It's my time to focus on the stage --- and that's easier if I manage the possible distractions in a way that I control..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Sure ya do Nik (Stoke it, Stroke it, Flick it, Stick it) Sure ya do Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have often wondered about this and since I haven't been shooting that long, where did this "shooter, give me a nod if your ready" and "shooter, indicates that they are ready" stuff come from? I mean, I have read, the steel rules, idpa and uspsa rules, none of the current (within last 2 years) mention any phrases that I often hear. Sorry to drift. I believe the different Range Commands came about through the evolution of Practical/Combat Shooting as practiced in different regions of the country and different countries before IPSC and USPSA were formally incorporated. The SWPL was the de facto ruler of the sport but that didn't prevent other clubs from conceiving of and implementing their own range commands. One of the earliest and most influential videos ever produced bore the title "Shooter Ready?" Many RO's of the time added their own embellishments by treating that as a rhetorical question, following a shooters positive response by stating "The shooter indicates...etc." Many RO's of the time had military or law enforcement backgrounds and their accompanying dependence upon proper if somewhat stilted nomenclature. To some extent, IPSC/USPSA, IDPA and the other organizations have been trying to undo history by clarifying and simplifying the Range Commands as well as getting them to some sort of universal application. My buddy rishii who has been a member of my club longer than I have (early '80s), and has attended three RO classes still lapses into the "old" commands every once in awhile. The stuff you learn earliest when it's all fresh and exciting stays with you the longest I guess. He and HI 5-0 will get into it in a friendly "discussion" every once in awhile since 5-0 has adopted "no response" into his LAMR which now is actually only "Make Ready." I'm guessing when all us "old timers" finally leave the range the plethora of Range Command embellishments will cease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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