bullet pricing

[shooterready]

I'm in! I'm still loading Speer plated 115 gr 9's which I bought for $32/1000 a couple years ago. Unfortunately, I'm down to the bottom of the bucket. Looks like more dry fire instead of live fire.

[wooddog]

While I am not one to want to shell out more money, a company exists to make money!

It seems like everybody seems to know all the facts about the bullet business and how they can work for less to suit our needs. So I assume everyone here turns down any raise offered at work, and when anticipate future expenses are considered, you just brush them off and figure they will be paid some how.

[zhunter]

While I am not one to want to shell out more money, a company exists to make money!

It seems like everybody seems to know all the facts about the bullet business and how they can work for less to suit our needs. So I assume everyone here turns down any raise offered at work, and when anticipate future expenses are considered, you just brush them off and figure they will be paid some how.

Of course a company is in business to make money, and make as much as they can. Due to market fluctuations, prices went up, the market has "corrected" itself in the metals that are used in bullet making, and the bullet prices have not reflected the lower supply prices. IF this was gas, imagine still paying $4.00 per gallon as we were when the crude oil price was at $147 per barrel when the present crude price is in the $40 - $45 a barrel range? Well, that is a pretty good analogy, so are you feeling bad for the Exxons and Shells of the world?

I think not, bullet prices are no different, but a much smaller consumer group.

Any other questions?

Edited January 25, 2009 by zhunter

[Rob Boudrie]

I think not, bullet prices are no different, but a much smaller consumer group.

They are quite different.

#1: No company has stepped forward and tried to gain market share by undercutting the higher prices everyone got used to charging.

#2: Congress isn't going to be all over the bullet industry like a cheap suit because their constituents are angered over high bullet prices.

t seems like everybody seems to know all the facts about the bullet business and how they can work for less to suit our needs.

Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to start a bullet company

[zhunter]

I think not, bullet prices are no different, but a much smaller consumer group.

They are quite different.

#1: No company has stepped forward and tried to gain market share by undercutting the higher prices everyone got used to charging.

#2: Congress isn't going to be all over the bullet industry like a cheap suit because their constituents are angered over high bullet prices.

Rob

I agree, congress is not going to help us, but the premise I was getting at with wooddog is the same. WE are the "congress" here, and we can control the prices by making choices.

Regarding your 1st point, a company is ONLY going to step forward when they are unhappy with their market share. My suggestion in post #14 is a way to create an imbalance in market shares to bring about a pricing "correction" in our favor.

[Sarge]

You all do realize alot more people buy bullets and reload than are any forum, right? I think if you all boycott you will just be shorting yourselves. And where is the guy who invariably shows up to say, "if you can't afford bullets then find a cheaper game." I know you are out there.

[zhunter]

You all do realize alot more people buy bullets and reload than are any forum, right? I think if you all boycott you will just be shorting yourselves. And where is the guy who invariably shows up to say, "if you can't afford bullets then find a cheaper game." I know you are out there.

Of course I understand that, but it would place a strain on sales for sure.

Anyway, I threw the idea out there.

I made my choice, I am going airsoft, ordered it today from Manny

[Chills1994]

nashvillebill on the first page wrote:

I'm not sold on casting yet. From what I've been told, melting, casting, sizing and lubing 1K bullets is an all day affair. Not even considering the acquiring, storing, the mess and health concerns.

for me anyways, 1K in boolits is like a 3 hour affair.

I don't know what the weather has been like in Nashville, but here in the St. Louis area it's been too cold to shoot. In fact, our regular "local" USPSA match was cancelled today. The thermometer currently reads 18 degrees F.

So that was at least 6 hours out of my 4th Sunday that I spent casting bullets (and making birdshot) and sizing boolits.

As far as health concerns, I think casting lead has been over-hyped. The quickest way to get anything into your bloodstream is to aerosolize it and then inhale it. When I used to shoot indoors, that was when my blood lead levels were the highest.

I am not boiling lead. Yes, lead has a boiling point. Consequently, I am NOT inhaling floating particles of lead from my casting pot.

When I smelt wheelweights down, it is with a propane fired turkey fryer and a cast iron dutch oven OUTSIDE.

I got my lead levels checked recently and it was at an 11.8. Way, way, lower than when I used to shoot indoors. I have health insurance, so I will get it checked again in February.

[Chills1994]

Sandman78 wrote:

You all do realize alot more people buy bullets and reload than are any forum, right?

Yeah, sure, I will agree with you on that... to a point...

I reckon that us BE'ers, even though we may seem like a small forum, shoot such a disproportionatley high number of rounds each year that the pistol bullet makers we would normally buy from would notice if maybe 20 die hard BE'ers /USPSA'ers stopped buying from them.

I think I did the math already on how many rounds I would shoot this year alone in just matches. It came in around 6K or 7K and totalled out to almost a thousand dollars, if I bought commercially available bullets.

I know there are some BE'ers here who shoot twice as much as I do. I think any one bullet manufacturer is going to notice a $20,000 drop in sales this year versus last year.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Chills1994

[nashvillebill]

Thanks Chills, I obviously need to meet more people who do casting. It would be great to see the process first hand. Likely proves the old saying "It's easy when you know how."

[AzShooter]

Thanks Chills, I obviously need to meet more people who do casting. It would be great to see the process first hand. Likely proves the old saying "It's easy when you know how."

Bill go to http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/enfield-r...p-new-post.html

and look around. You will get step by step instructions and all the needed information you need. You will probably find a caster or two in your area that would be more than happy to help you cast your own.

It doesn't have to be expensive either. If you buy LEE products they are the cheapest. Get a 20 pound pot, get a six cavity mould and you probably won't even have to size your bullets. A bottle of Liquid Alox LLA will last thousands of rounds.

If I weren't casting I wouldn't be shooting this year. Prices are just too high for this old retired guy to spend that much on a hobby.

[Chills1994]

Now, don't get me wrong... I will always have a reserve of copper jacketed/plated rounds with me just in case I am forced to shoot through a 55 gallon drum at a match.

As far as the actual equipment goes, you could try to swing a deal with a shooting buddy to go in on it 50/50, and that would certainly help defray some of the initial costs.

Since I also have a shotmaker up and running, I go 50/50 on wheelweights with people. They bring me a 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights, they get 50 pounds back in shot... or bullets ... "free".

Heck, I might try rigging up my posercam as I cast boolits so you can see it first hand.

[Joe D]

Guys they are gouging us. Lead is at historical lows. If we just sit and say nothing to the manufacturers then the prices will stay up. It is simple Negotiating 101 when dealing with these guys. Put together a large bullet order, 100,000+ is usually enough. Keep the order simple. Don't have 10 different sizes and weights.

Next request a bid from several of the manufacturers. Make certain they understand they are bidding against other manufacturers. If they don't want to bid then let them know they are removed from your bid list permanently. Once you choose a supplier let the others know they were not the successful bidder. Never tell them what you paid for your bullets. Just tell them they were too high. Let them guess.

The economy is bad. You had better believe it affects them also. Most of these guys can't spell LIFO, FIFO or OROOA.

BTW I paid $41m delivered for the last batch of .45 200 gr LSWC.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Joe D

[lugnut]

I think it's just a matter of time before prices come down. Not as fast as we would like but they will. Berrys has come down a bit already.

[nashvillebill]

Thanks AZ, that led to some great links.

[ebg3]

I did some casting the other day and remembered it's a PITA. I was using a 4 cavity mould and feeding a 10lb pot by myself and it took 4 hours just to make 1000 bullets. It was cold out and I was having a hard time getting the mould hot enough to cast a good bullet. Another 3-4 hours to size and lube and then I was ready to load. It's just too much trouble, for me. I'm going to have to look into buying bulk cast bullets just to keep shooting. It makes me sick having to spend $115/k for jhp bullets.

[bulm540]

I'm with Zhunter on this one. I am holding out on my bullet purchase.

[zhunter]

I'm with Zhunter on this one. I am holding out on my bullet purchase.

Airsoft equipment should be here by Wednesday.

I have a 9 yard, 3 USPSA target range set-up on my back porch.

Who needs boolits?

[Chills1994]

When I was leaving Allentown, PA from the 2007 IDPA Nat's, I bought a bunch of Berry's plated bullets from a Cabela's. They were averaging right around 70 bucks per 1 one thousand. This was the Sept/Oct 2007 timeframe. By Feb 2008 they had doubled in price to around $140 per 1K.

I was just on some other website and ducked into another page to see what they wanted for cast. They want $95 per thousand of 230 gr LRN.

that's just nuts!

[wooddog]

I think with the economy as it is we will see a drop before too long.

Perhaps some enterprising members here will start making boolits for sale at the afore mentioned reasonable prices.

How much does it cost to get an operation up and going?

Machine(s)

Molds

Materials

Permits

electricity/fuel

Marketing should be cheap because once one person on this forum finds cheaper boolits we'll all be ordering from them

[Chills1994]

The Magma Mark 7 Automated Casting machine is only $11,350 each.

and the Lube Master, yes it's called the Lube Master, sizer lubricator is only $7,950

The bullet collator is only an extra $1,376.

Yeah, yeah, buying the Lube Master without the collator-feeder would be like buying a Dillon 650 or 1050 without the casefeeder.

Now you could cobble something up if you're a handy kinda guy that would work say like fellow BE'er jmorris

[wooddog]

the Lube Master, yes it's called the Lube Master, sizer lubricator is only $7,950[/url][/b]

Damn!!... I thought I had really found something

[wooddog]

So for just about $21K you are ready to go.

Just add lead, lube and additional molds...

How much is delivery fee for bulk lead?

4000 boolits per hour = 105 lbs lead (for 180gr)= over 76K per ton

Hmmm... gonna have to buy lots of lead in bulk which may require a fork lift or other type of equipment to unload and move... I assume its bought by the ton

Add $4k for used fork lift

Is there a special permit or license required for a commercial bullet operation??

Any feds to consider?... DEP, BATF....

Edited January 27, 2009 by wooddog

[Irishlad]

Could be less bullet makers out there?

Supply/demand? If they are at full capacity, it would be very hard for them to reduce prices...human nature.

[BlackBuzzard]

Could be less bullet makers out there?

Supply/demand? If they are at full capacity.........................................

That is a good question. Anyone have good bullet-making capacity utilization numbers?

To be clear, I assume you mean the bullet makers - not finished ammo. Finished ammo is getting gobbled up by the same folks that chased semi auto pistols and black rifles post obama out of AWB concerns........and thats on top of high military and agency demands on .223 and 40SW, etc.

Who buys just pistol bullets? Its folks like us in action shooting sports mostly. Is everyone stockpiling? - NOT ME! I think the bullet makers are just trying to ride the postobama stockup wave. And I suspect unlike say Glock pistols and AR15's, bullet makers yr-over-yr numbers are flat at best.

BB