redwoods Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I am in charge of ordering our AR15 rifles and we have a limited budget. I am getting 2 AR15 complete rifles and 5 uppers. DPMS prices are $100 less than the Bushmaster on a complete rifle and $75 less on an upper. We would save $475 by going with DPMS. Is there much of a difference in quality between DPMS and Bushmaster? Thanks, Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwphoto Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 no real difference as far as I know. Check the specs very carefully and you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 DPMS is just fine. I would put the two equal, and DPMS maybe a bit better, but EVERYONE build a good AR these days. The only question I have is What does a Vail cop need with an AR? Don't you guys have an assault weapons ban for the ordinary Vailite?? Do you need the extra velocity for the "extream" skiers you can't catch? Seems to me the last Murder you guys had was when the city manager shot his wife back in the early 90s, has it gotten much worse since then? Ski by shootings?? IAJFWY Go DPMS.....Oh Yea, IAJFWY = I am just F#$%ing with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 redwoods, Don't let corkym's comments throw you off. (Kurt IAJFWY ) We have used DPMS rifles on our department for many years. No problems at all. Good value for the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 DPMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 some agencies who use DPMS: http://www.dpmsinc.com/military/listing.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
releo 37 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 DPMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 2 whole rifles? Just how big is the Vail PD? I'd go with the DPMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwoods Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I live in Vail, but work for Vail's neighbor. If I worked in vail, I wouldn't be allowed to carry a gun, it might scare the tourists, only some pepper spray, but watered down. Vail PD actually uses MP5s with the 9mm round. Their neighbors use .223rem. We have 3 9mm subguns, 2 11.5" ARs, and 6 Vietnam Era M16A1 rifles that are non-transferable and are gutted to only allow semi-auto. Some officers carry their own ARs and three others that are on the swat team have 11.5" full autos. I am adding two 11.5" AR15s and Replacing 5 others with new 11.5" uppers and taking off the 20" with triangular handguards. I am also replacing the A1 stocks with collapsible stocks. We have people driving from LA to NYC. They sometimes stop at our gas stations and may stay the night at the comfort inn. Our problem lately has been shootings to ones self (suicides). I-70 runs right through our towns out here. It's better to have tons of firepower and not use it, than need it and not have it!!! I guess I will look at the DPMS and maybe use the extra money for attachments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 An 11.5" AR isn't what I would want for the "autostrada" You can get M-14s for a dollar throught the right channels. As for your welcome home from the Nam rifles just re-gut them and rock and roll. As a Colo. LEO you can have full auto, right in the state laws! Check it out! Anyway Edwards on down to Gypsum along the "corridor" isn't bad as long as you can speak spanish and mega-bucks in the same sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 DPMS makes a fine rifle, but don't forget about RRA. I've had numerous Colts, Bushys, DPMS, and RRA and I'd put recent production RRA at or near the top of the list in terms of quality. In the end, you'll probably be well served by any of the "big names". That said, I would steer away from Colt - they seem to have had some QC issues in the past few years. Are you 100% sure you want the 11.5 inch barrels for guns that absolutely have to go "bang" every time? I know they're "tacticool", but I've seen them fail by the truckload due to the "too-short" gas system. Many folks have to install the pig-tail adaptors to get them to work correctly, and they still occasionally fail even then. Having carried M4s into harms-way many times myself, I'd recommend considering a standard 14.5 barrel. You'll only give up a few inches of "coolness" for a lot more reliable weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 BM usually uses chrome-lined barrels. DPMS uses unlined and lined barrels. For a WSHTF weapon I'd get a chrome-lined barrel. I've heard that DPMS has a huge back log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 BM usually uses chrome-lined barrels. DPMS uses unlined and lined barrels.For a WSHTF weapon I'd get a chrome-lined barrel. I've heard that DPMS has a huge back log. Yeah, they say they have a 100,000 unit backlog! Thats uppers, barrels, and complete rifles. I ordered a 308 upper last May, and still don't have it! I have both brands, and both work fine. My most accurate AR is a plain DPMS 16" AP4 carbine, with free floated barrel. One reason it's so accurate is lack of chrome lining, I think. For a working gun, I think I'd go for the chrome lining. It gives a marginal increase in reliability, and a pretty large increase in longevity. Plus easier to clean and corrosion is a little less of a worry. One great thing about DPMS is that noone supports our sport better! It's funny that it was recommended to stay away from Colt. If you go to AR15.com there are a bunch of Colt snobs there who look down their nose at anything else. There seems to be quite a bit of DPMS hatred there, too. I don't know where it comes from, except for the fact that there seem to be a number of mall ninjas who hang out there. Maybe some of their early guns weren't up to the quality they have now. Anyway, they are just fine firearms. You'll be happy with whatever you go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I want one of those old war horse 20" uppers if you can sell them at a decent price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If you get a DPMS, make sure you test it with your duty ammo (heck with any rifle). We had one of our SWAT guys DPMS rifle jam up on the hollowpoint ammo they were using. Worked perfect on the range with FMJ. He only got off one round with the HP stuff. Not good since that first shot was a miss at a guy who was shooting back. The rifle did not have the M4 feedramps and hung the round up. Nasty jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwoods Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was going to get the 11.5" barrels because we use the guns mainly for clearing buildings and car stops. I figure you can shoot the gun from inside the car if you really needed to with the 11.5" barrel. I thought they had the same length gas system as the 14.5" but I guess since the barrel is longer, more gas can work the bolt till the bullet exits. I need reliabilty in these guns. Is a 14.5 that much more reliable than an 11.5? The barrels and chambers will be chrome lined on the DPMS rifles. It is an option that we have on our quote. We currently shoot fmj rounds out of our rifles, but I bought some federal tactical soft points to try out. I am going to look into the m4 feed ramps for the reliability issue. I can sell the old uppers and will probably ask 100 bananas each. One has a triangular handguard, the others have round ones. They are M16A1 models. Full auto and tri-burst are fun, but there are only a couple guys here who could shoot auto accurately. A lot of the swat teams don't use the auto and although I would like one, they can be dangerous for officers who cannot handle one. We only are shooting 4 days at 4 hours per day this year. There is one full auto gun that is an extra from our swat guys. I guess I will assign that gun to myself to make sure the full auto gets used properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwoods Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Spoke to DPMS and they said their 14.5 and 16 inch barrels are more reliable than their 11.5". They also said that all their rifles since 2004 have M4 feed ramps. Bushmaster said their 11.5" is just as reliable. They had 10.5 that were not as reliable, so now the shortest they go is 11.5. They said they have different gas ports for each barrel size. They also said they have the m4 feed ramps in their guns. extra info in case anyone wanted to know. Randy (I will probably purchase DPMS 14.5 or 16" guns with the chrome lined chamber and barrels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrpp Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 DPMS will do the job just fine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheik_djibouti Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 with good mags and good lube in the right places, either should work fine. my initial concern like a previous poster was the chrome-lined issue, but you seem to have resolved that. between 14.5" and 16" my main concern would be delivery time at this point- you'd think that non-nfa weapons would be easier to get, but that may be a huge backlog right now, and they may have sbr's registered with a shorter wait, so if that's the case, i'd get whichever is available first. there is a slight difference in velocity and terminal ballistics. make sure you have good ammo that reliably functions and gives you good results in gelatin out of your barrel (contact the ammo manufacturer for test data). also, no one has mentioned stag. they are owned by cmt, which makes rra and receivers for colt and the early s&w's (the ones that worked). out of the box, they are among the best 16" carbine on the market, and with your fet exemption, you should be able to get a really decent price. hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latewatch Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was going to get the 11.5" barrels because we use the guns mainly for clearing buildings and car stops. I figure you can shoot the gun from inside the car if you really needed to with the 11.5" barrel. I thought they had the same length gas system as the 14.5" but I guess since the barrel is longer, more gas can work the bolt till the bullet exits. I need reliabilty in these guns. Is a 14.5 that much more reliable than an 11.5?The barrels and chambers will be chrome lined on the DPMS rifles. It is an option that we have on our quote. We currently shoot fmj rounds out of our rifles, but I bought some federal tactical soft points to try out. I am going to look into the m4 feed ramps for the reliability issue. I can sell the old uppers and will probably ask 100 bananas each. One has a triangular handguard, the others have round ones. They are M16A1 models. Full auto and tri-burst are fun, but there are only a couple guys here who could shoot auto accurately. A lot of the swat teams don't use the auto and although I would like one, they can be dangerous for officers who cannot handle one. We only are shooting 4 days at 4 hours per day this year. There is one full auto gun that is an extra from our swat guys. I guess I will assign that gun to myself to make sure the full auto gets used properly. redwood The 11.5" barrels are handy but, you really lose velocity which will affect your bullet performance. We currently carry 16" guns and issue the Federal .55 grain Tactical load. When choosing our duty load we piggy backed on a pretty in-depth testing program with our State Police. The testing showed that the Federal Tactical load was the only one that would reliably defeat intermediate barriers to include auto glass and still retain sufficient weight to be effective. The shootings utilizing this load from local agencies have been textbook as far as bullet performance goes. We have about 22 AR's from different manufacturers on the road and we've been using this ammo for the last 6 years and so far reliability has not been an issue with the Federal Tactical load. BTW, I will take both of those M16A1 uppers off your hands for $100.00 each if that's your price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Randy, Glad to hear you're considering the longer barrels - I've just seen too many shorter barrels fail to feel confident about them. Also, if you have any 20" M16A1 uppers unspoken for at this point, I'll take one for $100. Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 hey bro, just got back from carrying an M-4 for 6 months and can tell you it's none too big to clear a house with as long as it has a collapsible stock on it. The amount of headaches you will not have going with either the 14.5 or 16 is well worth it. The SBR's can be really tempermental to get to run with the super short gas tubes. Pig tail tubes suck really bad too. Go with what is going to run regardless of ammo. Speaking of ammo, most of your 5.56 defense rounds have a hard time working with the velocity loss out of a SRB. Hell, I would be hesitant to go under 16" barrel really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'd be interested in one of those old uppers. I've had a yen to build a retro gun and considering what you are doing. It would even be for a good cause. Let me know. Peter Adams FY-39604 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbullgpd Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I have had very good luck with the Stag Arms guns and they treat departments very well. Our department went to them and has had no problems at all in the past 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Would definitely choose the DPMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now