RH45 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Although I have several pistols that will shoot 1"-2" groups at 50 yards, and have heard of some Glocks (but have never actually seen) that will do an inch at 25 yards, out of all the production guns I've shot, my old SIG 226 was the most accurate, and did about 1 1/2" at 25 yards. With production scored minor, and A zone hits being the only hit not penalized, is there such a thing as a truly accurate production gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertbank Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Although I have several pistols that will shoot 1"-2" groups at 50 yards, and have heard of some Glocks (but have never actually seen) that will do an inch at25 yards, out of all the production guns I've shot, my old SIG 226 was the most accurate, and did about 1 1/2" at 25 yards. With production scored minor, and A zone hits being the only hit not penalized, is there such a thing as a truly accurate production gun? My CZ Shadow and SP-01 will shoot with your old Sig as would me CZ85. The Shasow is presently the winningest pistol in IPSC right now is a truly accurate gun out of the box. Take Care Bob ps While not allowed in Production my STI Trojan in 9MM will shoot with my CZ's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Although I have several pistols that will shoot 1"-2" groups at 50 yards, and have heard of some Glocks (but have never actually seen) that will do an inch at25 yards, out of all the production guns I've shot, my old SIG 226 was the most accurate, and did about 1 1/2" at 25 yards. With production scored minor, and A zone hits being the only hit not penalized, is there such a thing as a truly accurate production gun? My CZ Shadow and SP-01 will shoot with your old Sig as would me CZ85. The Shasow is presently the winningest pistol in IPSC right now is a truly accurate gun out of the box. Take Care Bob ps While not allowed in Production my STI Trojan in 9MM will shoot with my CZ's If my .40 trojan was allowed in production, even with 9 round mags, I think I'd do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) I haven't even had my hands on one, but I would think that the X-five all around would be there. Sigs are usually accurate and for what the all around costs... I have seen a Tangfolio stock shoot some tight groups, but it wasn't mine and I didn't measure 25 yard groups. Edited January 11, 2009 by bofe954 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I haven't even had my hands on one, but I would think that the X-five all around would be there. Sigs are usually accurate and for what the all around costs...I have seen a Tangfolio stock shoot some tight groups, but it wasn't mine and I didn't measure 25 yard groups. I guess I thought the X5 was a single action only. I'll have to look in to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 there are many good production guns to choose from. i have a few CZs (all 2006 production) and can support the idea that they can be quite accurate out of the box. i have test data from three CZ 9mm pistols, they were fired from a Ransom Rest at 25 yards. the following shows the average 5 shot group size with factory (4 loads, 115 to 147 grain bullets) and handloaded (3 loads, all 115 grain bullets powered by Power Pistol) ammo. Gun #1 Factory 1.72 inches; handload 1.21 inches Gun #2 Factory 2.25 inches; handload 1.55 inches Gun #3 Factory 1.77 inches; handload 1.27 inches i like the CZs ergonomics. their controls (thumb safety and magazine release) are just like a 1911 so you don't have to learn any new tricks to operate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 With production scored minor, and A zone hits being the only hit not penalized, is there such a thing as a truly accurate production gun? The A-zone on the USPSA target is ~ 66 square inches. It is about 6 inches wide and 11 inches tall. An accurate gun hits where you point it, whereas a precise gun shoots tight groups. Most any Production gun is capable of the task at hand. If you aren't getting your Alphas in match shooting, then look in the mirror and ask yourself why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorDanO Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 My accuracy greatly improved when I started shooting my SP01, although it was probably more the fact that it fit my hand better than any other gun I have shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) I run an M&P9 and love it. As far as I'm concerned accuracy is on par with any Glock and you can taylor it to fit your hand. Have been running a M&P Pro in Limited until it is approved for Production class and it's looking like this will be the way to go. Shooting Limited Minor with the scoring penalties for anything but A hits has done more to help improve my accuracy than any mod would have!!! Oh, and both have run anything I put thru it without fail..... Edited January 11, 2009 by NoSteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I haven't even had my hands on one, but I would think that the X-five all around would be there. Sigs are usually accurate and for what the all around costs...I have seen a Tangfolio stock shoot some tight groups, but it wasn't mine and I didn't measure 25 yard groups. I guess I thought the X5 was a single action only. I'll have to look in to them. The X5 allround is a DA/SA version. Don't confuse it with a standard 226 however...even though it says 226 S on the slide. It is a weighty tool that you can beat down targets with if you run out of ammo. There was a rumor that they were being discontinued - but they are back. You can also get 18 round flush fit mags (9mm) for use other than just gaming...and 20 mags that have a basepad. Accessories and factory support both leave a little to be desired but they are VERY accurate and smooth shooters...and they look nice too...IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 With production scored minor, and A zone hits being the only hit not penalized, is there such a thing as a truly accurate production gun? The A-zone on the USPSA target is ~ 66 square inches. It is about 6 inches wide and 11 inches tall. An accurate gun hits where you point it, whereas a precise gun shoots tight groups. Most any Production gun is capable of the task at hand. If you aren't getting your Alphas in match shooting, then look in the mirror and ask yourself why. My theory has always been that if BEST my gun will shoot is 4", and I'm shooting at a 6" target, that only gives me 1" on each side for "wobble" room, but, if I'm shooting at the same 6" target, with a gun that's capable of shooting 1", it gives ME a lot more room for error. God knows that I need all the room for error I can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I routinely shoot things that are 1inch or less...at 15y... with just about any Glock (I happen to shoot a Glock, I am sure other brands are similarly capable). I have no idea how tight a group I can hold. I really don't. I just know that I can hit almost anything in sight, by holding in the proper place and cleanly releasing the trigger without disturbing the gun. If you hold the center of the Alpha, then you can have an 8 inch group and still have about 80% + chance of hitting the Alpha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 With the exception of purchasing a gun that actually runs when your previous competition pistol had perpetual reliability issues, or picking up different heater that fits the shooters hands better, I have NEVER seen a shooter start kicking ass and taking names purely by buying a different gun. What I have seen is shooters shelling out big bucks for a custom made pistol and quitting a year later because they have had to face the fact that we improve our shooting through practicing the technical, physical, and mental aspects of the game. The best advice that I have been given as far as pistol selection goes is to find something that fits in your hands well, runs very reliably, and to use technology that you see the top shooters using. Once you do that, the rest is on you and not the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashdown Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I would agree that changing to a different gun with better ergonomics (personal choice) will improve your accuracy more than changing to a pistol with better mechanical accuracy out of a ransom rest. I state this based on the fact that pretty much all modern pistols, those allowed in production division, produce more than adequate accuracy out of the box for our sport. I did change to a new pistol for the 2008 season, and without any change to my practice routine (I don't practice at all live fire, and rarely dry fire) my scores improved dramatically against the same people I shot against in the past. The reason is that the pistol fit my hand better. I do not believe it was any better in the mechanical accuracy department. My sight radius did increase by an inch, but ergonomically, the gun feels more like an extension of my own hand versus the other that was more brick like. YMMV splash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It's not just the gun, it's the combination of the gun, the shooter, and the ammo. Some guns just don't fit some shooters, so they have trouble getting good groups. Some ammunition is more consistent and thus more accurate than other ammunition. I happen to shoot both a Glock 19 and a Glock 35. I can shoot better groups with the G35 and expect to do better this year in USPSA, but on a purely defensive pistol course I definitely prefer the G19 as it is easier to point shoot. Ultimately, however, most production guns are not the limiting factor in accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 There really are two sides to the accuracy coin. If you have a gun that shoots 3" at 25yds it's going to put as many into the A-zone that should have been a C as the other way around. Technically, this happens at pretty much every distance for every gun, no matter how accurate....think about those hits that just touch the line for an A....did you really put it there or was that the gun? Or those that don't quite touch the line...was that you or the gun? We'll never know and it's a variable that can't be controlled, but really shouldn't be worried about. If your rig can hold 3" or better at 25yds the results will be all you. Are there guns that aren't accurate enough? Definitely. Dad bought a Sig 239 for carry purposes a couple of months back and we've tried 20-25 different loads in it, both factory and handloads. Just the other day he hand weighed and measured cases to get 20 that were identical, hand weighed bullets and powder charges. The result was he shot a couple 7" groups at 25yds with that ammo He grabbed his snubby .38 and proceeded to shoot some 2" groups with it, so it's not him....looks like that gun is going to be traded/sold as it just isn't accurate enough, but that's an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Try this chewy mental morsel out. I use the term "wobble" wrong, but i like the message: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ic=9655&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I have made significant improvements by switching equipment, and I am a believer in finding what works for you. Pick one and shoot it, that has merit as well, but I believe if you pick the RIGHT one and practice you will be much better off. I demand an accurate gun for the simple reason of doubt, if my gun will shoot an inch at 25 I have no doubt of where the bullets are going and no reason to doubt the call. If I don't know that it is that accurate I get doubt creeping in and that hampers my shooting. 3" at 25 IS good enough for the game but it is NOT good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have made significant improvements by switching equipment, and I am a believer in finding what works for you. Pick one and shoot it, that has merit as well, but I believe if you pick the RIGHT one and practice you will be much better off. I demand an accurate gun for the simple reason of doubt, if my gun will shoot an inch at 25 I have no doubt of where the bullets are going and no reason to doubt the call. If I don't know that it is that accurate I get doubt creeping in and that hampers my shooting. 3" at 25 IS good enough for the game but it is NOT good enough for me. EXACTLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 There really are two sides to the accuracy coin. If you have a gun that shoots 3" at 25yds it's going to put as many into the A-zone that should have been a C as the other way around. Technically, this happens at pretty much every distance for every gun, no matter how accurate....think about those hits that just touch the line for an A....did you really put it there or was that the gun? Or those that don't quite touch the line...was that you or the gun? We'll never know and it's a variable that can't be controlled, but really shouldn't be worried about.If your rig can hold 3" or better at 25yds the results will be all you. Are there guns that aren't accurate enough? Definitely. Dad bought a Sig 239 for carry purposes a couple of months back and we've tried 20-25 different loads in it, both factory and handloads. Just the other day he hand weighed and measured cases to get 20 that were identical, hand weighed bullets and powder charges. The result was he shot a couple 7" groups at 25yds with that ammo He grabbed his snubby .38 and proceeded to shoot some 2" groups with it, so it's not him....looks like that gun is going to be traded/sold as it just isn't accurate enough, but that's an exception. Wow, I've never heard of a SIG shooting that bad! What caliber is it? I have one of the first 9mm, 239s that came out, and even with WWB, it will do 2" at 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Tanfo Stock will shoot quarters at 25yds all day long... not sure what it will do at 50 yet because I haven't had a range that long to shoot it on. I was amazed how accurate the thing is. Lovely piece of machinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Flex said it - most production guns are accurate enough at the distances we shoot (into 2 or 3 inches at 25 yards), provided we the shooters do our part. Having a very accurate gun I think mainly helps in learning accuracy, but extreme accuracy isn't needed in most action shooting, and isn't worth having if part of the price is less reliability under match conditions. Tuco said it best: "When you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk..." We're talkin' here. I should go shoot (dryfire and airsoft tonite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Tanfo Stock will shoot quarters at 25yds all day long... not sure what it will do at 50 yet because I haven't had a range that long to shoot it on. I was amazed how accurate the thing is. Lovely piece of machinery. That sounds interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhglyn Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Caveat, I am an open gun shooter, haven't shot production in 4 years but.......... I just purchased a Beretta PX4 Storm in 9mm and it is a very accurate, and comfortable to shoot, pistol. Just thought I would add it's name to the "mix". Anyone here actually shoot one in matches? Feedback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Surfer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 **TAGED** Waitting to find the magic gun that I can get so I will never have any more MIKES and will NEVER shoot another NO_SHOOT again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now