Lee Factory Crimp Die In 9mm

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, setting up my first 650 after decades of using SDBs. In 9mm, would there be any real advantage to running a Lee Factory Crimp Die? I've done a search and couldn't find an answer to that question. I understand the advantages in .40 S&W, but how about in 9mm? The rounds will be fired mostly through Glocks and various custom 1911s, none of which have super-tight chambers.

[XD Niner]

You'll undoubtedly find spirited arguments on both sides. I have one for each of the pistol calibers I reload on my XL650 including 9mm. Do I really need it if my other dies are all adjusted properly? Probably not. However, since I would still want a separate crimp die I think it offers some additional insurance in addition to its basic function.

[robertbank]

Okay, setting up my first 650 after decades of using SDBs. In 9mm, would there be any real advantage to running a Lee Factory Crimp Die? I've done a search and couldn't find an answer to that question. I understand the advantages in .40 S&W, but how about in 9mm? The rounds will be fired mostly through Glocks and various custom 1911s, none of which have super-tight chambers.

Duanne i reload thousands of rds of 9MM every year (Saeco truncated cone bullets sized .357). I use a Dillon taper crimp just removing the belling. I have had nary a problem in STI Trojan, CZ85, CZ75, Tanfoglio "L" model/Combat Sport, Hi-Powers, Inglis, and CZ Shadow. No need for the Lee FCD. For pistol I am no fan of the FCD. Sizing down a lead bullet to make the round look pretty doesn't make any sense to me in 9MM, .40cal or .45acp. I just don't understand the logic behind the die.

Take Care

Bob

[revchuck]

Duane - I use a standard Lee four die setup (including taper crimp die) in my 550. I load any brass I can get my hands on. Everything feeds all the time in my guns, but then I use all factory barrels in my CZ-75Bs, SIG P6, Beretta 92 and M&P9.

[HSMITH]

I am still looking for someone that can explain how this die will work over the whole case on a tapered case like 9mm.....

If the preceding die adjustments are correct there is no use for a FCD, and if it is needed something is wrong. It is my opinion that the things that are wrong should be identified and corrected instead of smashed into fitting in the chamber. The thing to be most careful of in using these is reduction in neck tension. Sizing down oversized bullets, straightening crooked bullets, things like that are VERY dangerous as they will reduce neck tension and increase the likelihood of setback. Setback can blow guns up and hurt people. This applies to ALL calibers!! The one and only valid use I have for the FCD is using 230 grain FMJ in 45 Colt, you can actually crimp a cannelure in the bullet with the FCD and use nice reloading 230 fmj in your 45 Colt without worries of bullet pull locking up the gun. I suppose you could do the same thing with FMJ Super bullets in a 38 Special, but I have not tried it.

Duane, my 9mm 650 toolheads (I have several, short production, long major, etc) are all set up like this: Dillon sizer in station one, it will take care of the majority of sizing needed, has a great big leade to align the case, etc. Station two has an EGW undersize die, this takes care of the rest of the sizing needed, gets down very low to eliminate the Glock bulge, and it increases neck tension/bullet pull for consistency. Station 3 has the powder drop, and the powder funnel is turned down to .352" so that there is no chance of it undoing anything positive I get from the U-die. It bells the case only, and as a plus it makes loading smoother and easier. Station 4 is a Redding Competition Seating die, THE BEST seating die money can buy. It seats bullets as straight as possible contributing to accuracy and reliability. Station 5 is a Dillon crimp die, it works great to take the bell off the case. It isn't the cheapest way to go but it makes the best ammo possible.

[itchy]

I've loaded thousands of rounds of 9mm on my 1050 using the Dillon crimp die. All shot through a G17 or G34, without any issues. I load mostly Zero and Berry's bullets, with a little Winchester when I can't get Zero.

Good luck,

Seiichi

[lugnut]

Dillon sizer in station one, it will take care of the majority of sizing needed, has a great big leade to align the case, etc. Station two has an EGW undersize die, this takes care of the rest of the sizing needed, gets down very low to eliminate the Glock bulge, and it increases neck tension/bullet pull for consistency.

Wow- I never thought of using the EGW after a regular sizer die. Hmmm. I wonder if doing the EGW on my fresh tumbled brass is too tough on it (usually only of .40S&W anyway).

WRT Lee FCD- I don't use it often at all. I had some 147gr 9mm loads that looked like the bullets caused a slight bulge at on the brass near the base of the bullet. I used the FCD to "smooth" it out. I could certainly see where the FCD "squeazed" the body of the case more. Fit the case gauge before and after though FWIW- I was just being anal.

[Chills1994]

I'm running both the Lee/EGW Undersize die and the Lee FCD.

The only time I case gauge ammo is maybe the first 5 or 10 that first come off the press when I start a 300 round reloading session.

I will also take those same 5 or 10 rounds and hand cycle them through the pistola.

Then I will check with digital calipers their length.

Nope, never had a problem with setback.

In my opinion, life is too short to be spent case gauging ammo all the time.

Your Mileage May Vary... however.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Chills1994

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I don't use the Lee FCD at all the Dillon does all I need it to do. Just ask your self if you had problems with the SDB loading 9mm. None, that is what I thought since that is what I found out on my old SDB. Oh by the why do you want to sell your SDB in 9mm? I am sorry I sold mine and have a friend who could use one. Let me know if you do. I am sure you will love your 650 but I like the RL1050 better Thanks, Eric

[PhotoRecon]

I've been using a Dillon 9mm die set in my RL1050 for a long long time. In my experience focusing on getting the right case properly sized and loaded in the first place works best for me. I would prefer that approach rather than rely on a FCD to make everything right. If I had to be assured that every round was in spec I would prefer to run them through a case guage as the final step.

I also have another 9mm with an unsupported and oversized chamber resulting in brass bulged at the web. In that case the EGW U-die used after sizing with my regular sizer is the only economical method I've found to get the brass back in spec. I originally thought about trying the Lee FCD die to resolve this problem but Lee emailed me that the FCD die would not size down far enough to correct the bulge at the web. So, I never actually tried to the FCD die.

I guess my answer to the original question about any advantage to using the FCD would be that unless their is some sort of problem with the rounds produced with your regular dies there isn't a need for the FCD. If there is a problem then I might consider using the FCD along with other possible remedies.

Regards...

[Merlin Orr]

Loaded a few rounds of 9mm on my 1050 setup with the Dillon dies and never felt the need (or had the need demonstrated to me) to go with anything else.

Just my experience - YMMV.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Merlin Orr

[George]

Many, many tens of thousands of 9mm (9x19 AND 9x21) on my 550 with the standard Dillon 9mm taper crimp die. I just barely kiss it, just enuff to flatten the case mouth to conform to the case taper rather than any indent on the bullet.

Never had any setback occur or had any problems chambering in various OEM Glock and aftermarket Glock bbls.

20 years of high volume 9mm loading tells me this die is a solution looking for a problem in the neener. If you need it, my guess is there is a problem somewhere in the sizing die and/or the chamber in question and thats where the fix should be applied IMHO

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, I'm convinced. No FCD for me.

[gm iprod]

Duane,

Just to put any last nagging doubts.

Ladies NRA Action Pistol World Champ use 9mm and Dillon Standard Crimping die for both Match (US made) and Practice (NZ Made to the same soecs on the same dies) worked just fine.

As an aside. If you can't get the ammo to crimp properly without using the Lee then the problem is actually elsewhere and using the Lee just hides the real issue.

[DougCarden]

Wow......feeling contrarian today....LOL

If, and if.......you load a lot of lead bullets and shoot them out of tight chambered match grade barrels, I highly suggest using the FCD. Lets face it, not all lead bullets are made the same, and knowing that they will chamber and shoot is a comforting thing, period. I simply have to shoot lead due to economics, and will not tolerate the guns not running, period.

In my ransom rest testing it has no adverse effect on accuracy as long as you dont "roll crimp" the bullet with the adjustment knob, but just take the bell off like you are supposed to. This is with expensive jacketed bullets (sierra) down to hardcast leadbullets. It is nice knowing that all the ammo will gauge unless something is wrong with the case head........<now that I case pro all my brass that is a thing of the past too.......LOL>

[Jman]

The FCD has a problem. It's always 1/4 turn away from being a bad die. I pulled it out of "rotation" on my .40 S&W set up and now use a Dillon taper. Never got to run consistently. BUT it remains a starter on my 9mm tool head. Everything thing I throw at it runs perfect. It must know I have a Dillon taper die ready to go the second it screws up.

Jim

[George]

If you can't get the ammo to crimp properly without using the Lee then the problem is actually elsewhere and using the Lee just hides the real issue.

Exactly!

[Miranda]

hmmmm

I thought the charm of the FCD was the angle of the taper from the crimp.

if you got the crimp right, the rest of the taper of the case was good.

now I'll have to go look.

miranda

[G-ManBart]

Dillon sizer in station one, it will take care of the majority of sizing needed, has a great big leade to align the case, etc. Station two has an EGW undersize die, this takes care of the rest of the sizing needed, gets down very low to eliminate the Glock bulge, and it increases neck tension/bullet pull for consistency.

Wow- I never thought of using the EGW after a regular sizer die. Hmmm. I wonder if doing the EGW on my fresh tumbled brass is too tough on it (usually only of .40S&W anyway).

The reason you run a standard resize die in 1 and a U-die in 2 isn't to be easier on the brass, it's to make it easier on your arm pulling the lever of the press

[lugnut]

The reason you run a standard resize die in 1 and a U-die in 2 isn't to be easier on the brass, it's to make it easier on your arm pulling the lever of the press

Ahh. Gotcha. I've started to use a little case lube to help things out when the sizing die seems to be working hard.

[Vlad]

On the other hand, I used my FCD because my Lee die set came with it and never seen a problem with using it in my 550. Is it necessary? I doubt it, but it seems to not hurt anything either and it crimps, so I don't need to buy another crimp die.

[PhotoRecon]

I would agree that sizing before using the U-die reduces the amount of effort.

However, my brass is so oversized that I must run it through a regular sizing die, a RCBS die in this case as my Dillon dies seem to be too aggressive, before using the U-die. Even with lubrication my U-die will shave brass from the case and leave a sharp ridge if I don't size the cases first. I don't think its a problem with the die but just that my brass is so oversized.

Edited January 7, 2009 by PhotoRecon

[gm iprod]

George, thank you. I thought I was talking to a wall for a while.

The Carbide ring in the Lee is straight and sizes the case too agressively and straight, and it does it all the way to the bottom of the web of the case until it reaches to the point barely above the head of the case. When you then open the case up to accomodate the projectile the case is moved outwards a fair amount. Then the bullet is slammed in and crimped this massive movement of the brass reduces case life and causes runout due to the different ductility iof the brass causing off centre variations. Try it I did some measuring one day. The Factory Crimpe (with carbide ring) then crimps the case and sizes it to some degree again. WTF 4. I don't know of any factory that uses this system, and I have visited a few.

Dillon dies have a much longer carbide ring. It is wider at the bottom of the die and tapers in (more towards what factory ammo looks like) to a straight section a little higher up the case. That is why a 9mm case sized on a Dillon Die is the shape it is. That is why you will get a longer case life using Dillon dies.

All this is to enable us to reload a case that tapers (in factory form) all the way from the web to the projectile. So we have to turn part of it into a straight case. Logic tells us that you only need to straighten the bit that will actually hold the projectile, like a bottle neck rifle cartridge.

Cases that are oversized are usually from a chamber that is over sized. Again the problem lies elsewhere and we have to do something less than clever to accomodate this problem. I use 9mm brass that come from Police handguns (Glocks) some of these guns are 50K rounds old and I have never had issues with Dillon dies and this brass. It is cleaned properly, lubed properly and then sized. I load on a 650 for 80% of my ammo, the rest goes through a SDB. For one batch of brass that an ammunition remanufacturer was having trouble with sticking primers on the 1050's he used, I decapped 20K brass one week on my SDB for him. The only 9mm press I had at the time. The rest I ran through a 1050 at a slightly higher pace. All that ammo went overseas for a Police training contact and We never got one complaint.