Lead Bullets?

[Titanium Eagle]

What is the downside(if any) of shooting lead bulllets ?

[Rabe]

What is the downside(if any) of shooting lead bulllets ?

are you shooting a compensated or un-compensated gun? Compensated guns have a tendancy to have lead build up in the comp which can be fun to clean out. If it is un-compensated there will be a "smoke" factor from the bullet lube. Either way, there will be more residue in the feed ramp are from

the mixture of unburned powder and lube, if you are a clean fanatic then there will be more work for you.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Rabe

[johnnybravo]

What is the downside(if any) of shooting lead bulllets ?

Well, lead bullets are cheaper than jacketed, especially if you cast your own. But...... any money saved will be spent on more components or equipment. So you end up spending the same amount of money, you just shoot much more.

That being said, I use my own cast bullets, so I'm speaking from experience.

John

[Titanium Eagle]

What is the downside(if any) of shooting lead bulllets ?

are you shooting a compensated or un-compensated gun? Compensated guns have a tendancy to have lead build up in the comp which can be fun to clean out. If it is un-compensated there will be a "smoke" factor from the bullet lube. Either way, there will be more residue in the feed ramp are from

the mixture of unburned powder and lube, if you are a clean fanatic then there will be more work for you.

I shoot an uncompensated gun. I heard a guy at the range today talking about how he never shoots lead and I wanted to learn more..

Thanks

[johnnybravo]

I shoot an uncompensated gun. I heard a guy at the range today talking about how he never shoots lead and I wanted to learn more..

Thanks

Did the guy at the range ever shoot lead bullets, or is he just passing on urban myths about the evils of lead bullets?

John

[Paul Burtchell]

There are few "downsides" to lead: 1) Obviously, lead exposure. 2) You have to clean your reloading dies more often, due to bullet lube. 3) You have to clean your pistol and generally your bore more often. 4) Smoke. Most of us that use lead do so in 40 S&W and 45acp for costs savings. The very powders we use to make the calibers shoot "softer" Clays, Titegroup etc.. are very fast burning and high heat producing. This heat will melt bullet lube and create a great more deal of smoke than jacketed bullets that do not have exposed lead bases.

Pros and Cons. I like to use lead for practice and jacketed for matches. If costs were not a factor I would strictly use jacketed bullets. Of course if you are shooting an Open compensated gun you really don't have much of a choice but to shoot CMJ or JHP jacketed bullets.

Edited November 29, 2008 by baerburtchell

[bayouman]

It is my understanding that lead is easier on the barrel since it is a softer metal than copper. I typically shoot lead for practice and jacketed for matches mainly because my lead bullets are semi wadcutters which give me more feed problems than my jacketed bullets.

Also, shooting a lot of lead indoors does create a lot of more smoke than jacketed.

[bwit]

Nobody mentioned barrel leading--sometimes due to the higher speed of the bullet, powder melting the bullet end, roughness of the barrel [or crappy luck] the bullets will leave streaks of lead in the barrel rifling, which need to be cleaned out periodically. My favorite and easy way to clean it out is by shooting jacketed bullets, but it doesn't always work well. Depends on the gun. Then it's pain to clean it out. Also as mentioned above, it is a lot easier to reload with jacketed and less messy.

[iron hands]

What is the downside(if any) of shooting lead bulllets ?

DONT RUN CAST IN A GOLCK !!!!! Unless you are shooting a no golck bearile like wolf. I run lazer cast in my 610 and my 9mm 45acp and outher 40 cals my 610 loves cast it just takes longer to cleen the gun after a shoot.

[2MoreChains]

I switched to lead bullets when I started shooting USPSA. Cost was the primary factor, and the only thing I had to do extra was be more careful when belling and seating to prevent a case bulge. A Lee FCD helped w/ that, and it probably made me a more precise reloader to boot.

BTW I'm shooting .45 LSWC's, and those really big cookie cutter holes have saved me from a couple No-shoots so far. Had I been shooting RN, I don't think I would have squeaked by...

The downside: yeah, it's dirtier (smoke and lead smears in bbl), but I can live with the extra effort it takes. OTOH, I've got some moly-bullets coming soon. I need to do some experimenting with those since they are only a few more $ more per 500, and quite a bit cheaper than plated or FMJ.

But if I stayed with lead, I wouldn't mind learning to cast my own. That sounds like something I would enjoy doing.

[JThompson]

For 26 $ per 1k dif... I'll deal with the lead and get an extra 1k and change for ever 2k I buy.

That's compared to Precision Delta too, not some high dollar like Zero or MG. I think all our guys need to rethink their prices. At this point, I see it as gouging. They said they were only raising prices because of lead/copper prices... now they are way down and no relief from our buddies who only raised the price because of the material price. They need to take a page from the gas prices and cut us some slack.

Edited November 29, 2008 by JThompson

[JD45]

Smoke.

[Chris Keen]

That's compared to Precision Delta too, not some high dollar like Zero or MG.

You think MG is high dollar ???

[lcs]

Berry's just dropped their "Lead Surcharge", but still not reflective of current lead prices IMHO.

[dirty whiteboy]

For 26 $ per 1k dif... I'll deal with the lead and get an extra 1k and change for ever 2k I buy.

That's compared to Precision Delta too, not some high dollar like Zero or MG. I think all our guys need to rethink their prices. At this point, I see it as gouging. They said they were only raising prices because of lead/copper prices... now they are way down and no relief from our buddies who only raised the price because of the material price. They need to take a page from the gas prices and cut us some slack.

Roger that. Maybe the wheels should squeak a little louder.

[Dale53]

I started casting my own bullets while still a teenager. I have cast several hundred thousand. During a short period (five years) I shot 75,000 bullets through my 1911 .45 ACP when shooting IPSC. Money was tight in those days and it was either shoot cast or not at all. Actually, I prefer cast bullets. I have known 1911's that had 200,000 cast bullets through their barrel. 5000 rounds of jacketed will take the accuracy edge off your barrel.

I do get a bit more smoke but it has not been a serious problem. I only clean every 300 rounds or so. To me, the extra cost and wear and tear on the equipment precludes me shooting jacketed UNLESS the match specifies it. I have NEVER had any serious leading problems in any of my considerable number of handguns (from .22 rimfire to .454 Casull).

Dale53

[technetium-99m]

Lead bullets are great, especially if you cast your own. I can shoot a 230 gr TC at around 775 all day and not have much leading. If you pick your powder appropriately smoke isn't really an issue. Just make sure they are sized to the right diameter for your bore and you will have good accuracy and minimal leading.

GT

[Jimlakeside]

I shoot cast bullets in my factory Glock barrel all the time with no leading problems. Commercial cast bullets are safe to shoot in Glock factory barrels. Any barrel will lead if you bullet size is too small or you are pushing lead too fast. My Glock 34 hasn't seen a factory load through it yet, and I have shot 1000s of rounds of cast bullets in it.

[revchuck]

Pete - What caliber are you loading for?

Most calibers work well with lead bullets. Once you determine the diameter your gun likes, accuracy is excellent and leading is minimal.

9x19 seems to have the most problems with lead bullets, because many commercial casters size the bullets too small in that caliber. Most 9x19s work best with lead bullets sized .357"...or at least mine do.

For me, smoke is the biggest drawback.

[rr4406pak]

5000 rounds of jacketed will take the accuracy edge off your barrel.

HUH?

[el pres]

5000 rounds of jacketed will take the accuracy edge off your barrel.

HUH?

+1

Maybe in some one off bullseye gun that sees 100rnds. a year ??

I find that they get "more" accurate after 5000, or I get better shooting them ??

Edited December 2, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER

[Titanium Eagle]

Pete - What caliber are you loading for?

Most calibers work well with lead bullets. Once you determine the diameter your gun likes, accuracy is excellent and leading is minimal.

9x19 seems to have the most problems with lead bullets, because many commercial casters size the bullets too small in that caliber. Most 9x19s work best with lead bullets sized .357"...or at least mine do.

For me, smoke is the biggest drawback.

I just ordered my 650 for 45 ACP will probably also order the conversion kit for 9MM

[38superman]

A lot depends on whether you buy lead bullets or cast your own.

If you cast your own:

Pro's -

Cheap

Easier on the gun (bore).

No supply chain issues, waiting for backorders etc.

If I roll my own, no politician can ever stop me.

Cons -

Dirty

Toxic

Smoke

Can't easily be pushed to the higher velocities that jacket bullets are capable of.

And....

Casting your own bullets is WORK.

It's tedious and time consuming.

For those of you that are accustomed to quickly cranking out thousands of rounds in your Dillon, you will lose your mind trying to produce a thousand lead slugs.

The upfront cost of the furnace, tooling, dies, molds, lubricators.

The availablilty of lead.

You don't just go down to Home Depot and go down the "Lead" aisle.

I used to melt down wheel weights.

I would scavenge them wherever I could.

The alloy is a little less dense and weighs a little light.

A 240 gr mold would produce a bullet that weights about 235.

It's also a little harder than your typical lead slug.

In short, there is no free lunch.

What you save in dollars you will burn in time.

I will stick with jacketed.

I spend a considerable amount of my free time reloading.

I don't need to add to that if I don't have to.

Tls

Edited December 2, 2008 by 38superman

[redmanfixit]

If you hand load, you MUST have a little mad scientist in you! If you goof around with your propellant (use older, cheaper, slower burning types) you can keep the tendency to melt the base of the bullet under control. Less smoke and less toxic. The current Lee Modern Reloading has a TON of really good information on bullet casting and lead alloys to keep the hardness up to the velocity. Mr. Lee is a smart -OLD GUY- and has been doing this for a lifetime. He has opinions based on experiment and sound engineering. The book is inexpensive. There is a bullet caster in St. John Kansas by the name of Tommy. The company is Leadheads Bullets. Web address is www.proshootpro.com. I have run a BUNCH of thousands of his bullets through my 1911 .45 ACP and my wife's Hi-power 9mm. With no leading troubles whatsoever. I have also run them through my Glock 21SF also with no leading problem. I have had MANY cranky old Marine and Army armorers tell me that lead is more accurate than jacketed as long as you're not driving them to screaming magnum velocities. Tommy SWEARS you can run his bullets to jacketed ammo velocities and have no leading problem. As far as I can tell it's true but I don't build really hot ammo. On this forum there is reference to a bullet casting machine that is a real marvel! This is the web link to photobucket http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/.

This guy makes cool shooting related stuff. He is the guy that posted photos of his home made caster on this forum, REALLY cool!! As far as getting lead goes, there are tons of it in the berms at most shooting ranges and it's not difficult to recover. Use a dust mask and wash your hands. 2 or 3 people working together can easily get several hundred pounds in a few hours with simple tools and some screens. You can usually do the berm some good too, so the range is improved. You're going to move the dirt anyway. All the leftover jacket material and dross can be sold to metal recyclers and the money used to buy alloy metals. Babbit metal is commonly available and has a high tin content to harden and improve the castability of the alloy. Buy a cheap cast iron dutch oven and use that turkey fryer burner that's getting rusty in the garage as a melt system. It works well and it's cheap. A 25 quart dutch oven holds about 105# of lead. It doesn't take as much fuel as you think! Cast it into 1# ingots and cast away!!

With a hobby like this, you either pay time or you pay money, or both. Americans once knew how to make everything. I don't think that was such a bad thing. Be sure you check J Morris metal out. That guy knows how to make stuff!!

I am in no way affiliated with Leadheads, except Tommy bought a tractor from my Uncle Vernon. And I like his bullets. Tommy's OK too!

[johnnybravo]

If you are considering casting your own bullets, I suggest getting a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, Third Edition. It can save you a lot of time and money by allowing you to research before you jump in. Most gun shops should be able to order it for you.

Casting IS time intensive. Well, so is reloading. So is shooting, driving to matches, match preparation, practice, etc.

It is about budgeting your time. I look at casting as an extension of the reloading process. Just as you would do research before you buy a press, Lyman's book will allow you to do some research before you buy casting equipment.

John

Edited December 2, 2008 by johnnybravo