ebg3 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 The Failures to extract that I have described are not caused by a heavy recoil spring. As I stated in earlier posts, the ext. is pulling off of the case rims and leaving empties in the chamber. I tried an 11lb and a 13lb spring and still had those wonderful FTE's. I settled on a 13lb spring and have not had a FTE since I installed a 2nd spring under the ext. now I just need to fine tune the tension to get the gun running reliably. The last I shot it, I went back to the stock spring to help with the too tight ext. and the gun ran fine. I only shot 175rds so I won't swear by it yet. I did get a new ext. and spring from S&W so at least I have a spare ext. to work with. The bugs can be worked out of this gun and it will be an excellent Production pistol. It's just not there yet. I've thought a bunch about what the S&W service guy said to me (see earlier post) about what my expectations are. Am I asking too much for the gun to run 100%? I don't think I am. I have shot MANY thousands of rounds through my STI at 100% and that is what I expect out of my guns. If they don't perform how can I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The Failures to extract that I have described are not caused by a heavy recoil spring. As I stated in earlier posts, the ext. is pulling off of the case rims and leaving empties in the chamber. I tried an 11lb and a 13lb spring and still had those wonderful FTE's. I settled on a 13lb spring and have not had a FTE since I installed a 2nd spring under the ext. now I just need to fine tune the tension to get the gun running reliably. The last I shot it, I went back to the stock spring to help with the too tight ext. and the gun ran fine. I only shot 175rds so I won't swear by it yet. I did get a new ext. and spring from S&W so at least I have a spare ext. to work with. The bugs can be worked out of this gun and it will be an excellent Production pistol. It's just not there yet. I've thought a bunch about what the S&W service guy said to me (see earlier post) about what my expectations are. Am I asking too much for the gun to run 100%? I don't think I am. I have shot MANY thousands of rounds through my STI at 100% and that is what I expect out of my guns. If they don't perform how can I? one question: Did you send it, or have you ever sent it to S&W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 The Failures to extract that I have described are not caused by a heavy recoil spring. As I stated in earlier posts, the ext. is pulling off of the case rims and leaving empties in the chamber. I tried an 11lb and a 13lb spring and still had those wonderful FTE's. I settled on a 13lb spring and have not had a FTE since I installed a 2nd spring under the ext. now I just need to fine tune the tension to get the gun running reliably. The last I shot it, I went back to the stock spring to help with the too tight ext. and the gun ran fine. I only shot 175rds so I won't swear by it yet. I did get a new ext. and spring from S&W so at least I have a spare ext. to work with. The bugs can be worked out of this gun and it will be an excellent Production pistol. It's just not there yet. I've thought a bunch about what the S&W service guy said to me (see earlier post) about what my expectations are. Am I asking too much for the gun to run 100%? I don't think I am. I have shot MANY thousands of rounds through my STI at 100% and that is what I expect out of my guns. If they don't perform how can I? one question: Did you send it, or have you ever sent it to S&W? Yes, please read earlier posts...they'll bring you up to speed. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Knock on wood, My wifes 9l and my 9 are both running fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddler Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 13# spring and non captured guide rod are on the way from Speed Shooter Specialties. Come on UPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartzpad Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I would have hoped so. Since adding a non-captured guide rod (tungsten) and a 13# recoil spring I have had four FTEs over maybe 350 rounds (some practice and a match, yikes) with my mouse fart loads. 124g RN plated over 4.0 titegroup. I'll up my charge a little and continue to watch this thread for insight. The Pro is a good gun to shoot production so I hope this gets resolved. Hanexp, I'm shooting the exact same Titegroup load with 124 gr. Berry's RN WITH a 13# recoil spring and I have had 0 problems in over 1000 rounds and several matches. How many rounds do you have through your Pro? Is it broken in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanexp Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I would have hoped so. Since adding a non-captured guide rod (tungsten) and a 13# recoil spring I have had four FTEs over maybe 350 rounds (some practice and a match, yikes) with my mouse fart loads. 124g RN plated over 4.0 titegroup. I'll up my charge a little and continue to watch this thread for insight. The Pro is a good gun to shoot production so I hope this gets resolved. Hanexp, I'm shooting the exact same Titegroup load with 124 gr. Berry's RN WITH a 13# recoil spring and I have had 0 problems in over 1000 rounds and several matches. How many rounds do you have through your Pro? Is it broken in? I have about 1500 rounds through my Pro. Interesting that I have been having a high percentage of my 9mm reloads not going into the size checking die all the way. The problem is that the case rim won't go in due to dings in the rim. The rejects aren't due to the bottom of the case being bulged. It is because of a high number of case with damage to the rim. Does this sound like an extractor problem? As I look at the extractor it looks to my very untrained eye exactly as it should. I'm wondering if the extractor tension could be the issue? Any thoughts? I will polish the chamber and up my charge a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta Lover Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I would put the stock recoil system back in your blaster and run some factory ammo through it. My guess is you have an untuned extractor or a chamber that was not finish reamed. I ran into a few guys with Paras that had chambereing and extraction problems. Im pretty sure the chambering was due to barrels that had the chamber cut and not finished. My guess is this could make your gun sticky for exteraction as well. I dont know anout MPs but it sounds like your extractor is an out of spec part, if it has a spring in the extractor assembly (again dont know about MPs) it could be a weak extractor spring. Or the extractor is chipped ever so minutely. I think your channel or indentation where the extractor sits ion the gun could be super dirty or machined incorrectly. We have a forum member Mark Dye from Dye custom guns here in Knoxville TN who has been doing a bunch of MP smithing lately. I would ask him about it. Mostly I would send the gun back to SW and tell them to keep it until it runs 100%. Positive extraction in a 9mm production gun with factory ammo should be 100%. Unless its busted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddler Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Mine ran fine this weekend. Now up to 400 rounds of WWB without a snag. I got my new recoil spring today. I'll have to do a comparison with some of the ammo that was giving me fits earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 125 trouble free rounds through the new M&P Pro today! Mixed between Win Ranger 124gr, Fiocchi 115gr and Speer 147gr GDHP. Ejection was consistent, but it wasn't throwing them very far. Non-captive guide rod and 13lb spring will be my first test. Trigger had a little grit to it in the takeup but most of that seems to be gone after just a little shooting and dry firing. VERY nice shooting pistola.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I can't remember which M&P thread this was in before, so I'll post it here. I got the Storm Lake barrel for my 9L on Friday. I took it to the range on Saturday and put about 350 rounds through it to break it in. I then shot a group at 25 yards and chrono'd some rounds. After that I put my stock barrel back in. It wasn't clean, but it was cold. I shot 6 rounds across the chrono, and then a 6 shot group. There was no difference in the chrono. If anything the stock barrel was slightly more accurate, but neither were great. I'm not a great group shooter, even shooting of a sandbag, so YMMV. I've also been told the gun is more accurate shooting freehand, but I'm not. I'm not sure what the proper break in procedure is (if any) for a new pistol barrel. I may not have done it justice, but there wasn't a drastic improvement in accuracy with the SL barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Even though my full-sized, .40 would run 100% with my Glock, "gamer" loads (128pf), I tried to run some of my 9mm, "gamer" loads through my new Pro and they don't have enough power to lock the slide back, and sometimes, won't run the slide back far enough to run.When I get some time, I plan to try it with a lighter recoil spring. I'm assuming that all will be good. S&W says the stock recoil spring is 15#, but I find it to be much heavier than an ISMI 15#er. IMO, an aftermarket non-captured recoil spring/guide rod is a must for the M&P (preferably about 13# for 128-130pf range) By the way, did you chrono your 128pf Glock load through your M&P? I've found stock M&P barrels to be a bit slow, so it's possible that this load wouldn't even make minor in your M&P... and anything that slow probably wouldn't function reliably I pulled the recoil assy out of one of my Glocks, and dropped it in my Pro and found that my "gamer" loads wouldn't make minor in it, but, I also shot some with 4 grains of Titegroup, behind a Zero 125 grain JHP, with OAL of 1.125 and they came in at about 131pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartzpad Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 My Pro just keeps getting better. 300 more rounds in a match today and not 1 hiccup with the 13 lb. recoil spring, trigger keeps getting better. There were 2 Glocks in my group that had repeated problems, but it was likely because of mods the shooters had made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The failures to extractor are because of the oversized chambers. If you crimp ammo a little too much or use wolf and you have an oversized chamber the rim slips pass the headspace shoulder and locks the case in tight so you rip the rim off. Early M&P suffer from this more than the later ones, send it back to smith!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanexp Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) The failures to extractor are because of the oversized chambers. If you crimp ammo a little too much or use wolf and you have an oversized chamber the rim slips pass the headspace shoulder and locks the case in tight so you rip the rim off. Early M&P suffer from this more than the later ones, send it back to smith!!!!! So, can one check for the oversized chamber by chamber checking every round with the barrel? eta: like a chamber gauge Edited March 29, 2009 by hanexp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanexp Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I have experienced perhaps three FTEs over the first 1200 rounds with a factory recoil spring with my Pro. As posted earlier, I experienced five FTEs during a total of ten stages since going to a 13# recoil spring. Since polishing the chamber, I shot a four stage match and experienced one FTE. A local gunsmith, commented that he thought the extractor seemed to have adequate tension. He also explained to me that after detonation, the cartridge expands to seal the chamber and then contracts. He suggested the barrel could be unlocking before the case contracts, causing the ejector claw to pull over the rim and leaving the case still in the chamber. I understand that the recoil spring affects the timing of the unlocking of the barrel. If this is correct, would a stronger recoil spring tend to delay the unlocking of the barrel, and thus increase certainty of ejection? What other factors affect the unlocking of the barrel? Barrel fit? Thanks for any comments. I really like the M&P Pro. I really would like to get it 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I don't think a 20# recoil spring is going to do anything but cause the gun to short stroke. There is an explosion in the chamber of that gun, by design the slide is instantly going to start moving within miliseconds. Some Pro's run flawlessly, some are having problems. I think it's happening more often in the early guns. I just got mine about 3 months ago. It runs 100% with the factory spring and 100% with the 11# spring on the FL tungsten guide rod. The only problem I had had with my gun is the slide not locking back on an empty mag occasionally. I'm going to inspect that when I have more time. It hasn't been so much of an issue to cause me to spend much time on it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 I have not shot my Pro lately so no update on it's reliability. I have been thinking about reasons for the FTEs and I'm wondering about it unlocking too early. The FTEs I've had don't seem to be related to the recoil spring, I've shot the 11, 13 and factory springs. Just before battery, you can really feel the striker engage the sear and start to load up, slowing the slide. It is less noticable with the factory recoil spring. I just trimmed 3 coils from my striker spring but have not yet shot it, but it should make the gun more reliable with the 13lb recoil spring and it should fire fine with small pistol primers. If the guns are unlocking too soon it could be that increasing the ext. tension is enough to overcome this problem but it really is not a fix. If you add too much spring tension to the ext., you will experience failures to go into battery as the ext. slides up the case rim/groove. Hopefully trimming a few coils from the striker spring will help overcome some additional ext. tension and make the gun reliable. I don't notice any peening or rounding of the "top lug" so I don't know if unlocking too soon is really what is happening. I'm going to take some chamber measurments to see how close to specs it is and possibly a chamber reaming will help. Openning up the chamber a bit may allow more expansion/ contraction of the case and fix the problem. Somebody else figure this out and tell me what the fix is! Oh, and let S&W know too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I just trimmed 3 coils from my striker spring Wolff sells a reduced power striker spring for an M&P, the one in my Pro is setting off primers no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leozinho Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Most (all?) of the posters seem to have the Pro model. What about the 9L? Is it also experiencing FTEs? I was under the impression it was the same pistol, minus an action job and different sights. Am I wrong? (BTW, this thread has turned has made me very hesitant to purchase a M&P.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 A friend of mine has a 9L that he had FTE problems with at the last two matches. His extracter appears to be sticking out of the slide further than it should (we compared it to 3 other M&Ps) like there's something under it, not letting it go back to it's "home" position. I think it was going back to S&W this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Most (all?) of the posters seem to have the Pro model.What about the 9L? Is it also experiencing FTEs? I was under the impression it was the same pistol, minus an action job and different sights. Am I wrong? (BTW, this thread has turned has made me very hesitant to purchase a M&P.) My purpose for starting this thread was partly to vent and partly to get feedback from other shooters. I have also hoped that word would get back to S&W and they would acknowledge this problem and offer a solution. I have at no time wanted to slam S&W or hurt their sales. I think the Pro is a good gun and it will be a GREAT gun without the FTE's. For what it's worth, I think I'll keep the gun and continue to try to work the bugs out. I have heard of an aftermarket extractor that may improve reliability-I may track one down and try it. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have heard of an aftermarket extractor that may improve reliability-I may track one down and try it. EG Any idea on the manufacturer of said extractor? R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have heard of an aftermarket extractor that may improve reliability-I may track one down and try it. EG Any idea on the manufacturer of said extractor? R, No but I think it is being made in NC. I'll ask around at the match this weekend. If I find out I'll post it. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have heard of an aftermarket extractor that may improve reliability-I may track one down and try it. EG Any idea on the manufacturer of said extractor? R, No but I think it is being made in NC. I'll ask around at the match this weekend. If I find out I'll post it. EG Cool...thanks. I'm hoping I won't need one, but with so few rounds through my Pro I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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