Chriss Grube Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 That is the perception that CAN be changed on TV. Showing the FGN and hopefully some regular shooters will go a long way. I don't care who is in the Prez. seat it comes down to the regular shooters dragging their friends to the matches to grow a club. Sedro can't make them come. The TV exposure might get some new blood interested but it has to show all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I voted for Mike Voigt. The last thing USPSA needs is isolationism. Where would USPSA be today in regards to IPSC if Mike hadn't been President? It's all fine and good to support the local club level, but that has to be done AT the club level. Throwing money at the local clubs isn't going to help. Most of the local clubs will use the support well but there probably would be clubs that would use the support to help their IDPA group or Cowboy group, or Highpower group, etc... I don't see that the local clubs are struggling because of anything that USPSA is or isn't doing. The local clubs are struggling because of member burn out (set up, design, tear down, club admin, stats, etc... so unless USPSA is going to send out volunteers to do the actual work?) or dilution because of too many matches available. Not all areas have that problem, but here in California I can shoot 7 matches a month. At each of these clubs I hear fond rememberances of when we had 70 shooters at our monthly matches. Well yeah, but there were only 2 matches a month within a 2-3 hour drive! I want a President that takes a lot larger view of the sport/industry than just looking at the local clubs. I want a President that has the industry connections to make large agreements possible that affect the sport on a world wide level. I want a President that knows what it takes to start out as a local club level competitor and become sucessful at the top levels of the sport. That's why I voted for Mike. Denise and Stewart may be the nicest, best people on the planet, but in my opinion they don't have the experience or qualifications of our current President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 A beretta or smith or Sig with a traditional double action trigger is not the same as a L10 1911 with a sixteen ounce trigger, mag well, and all the other add ons. These gun companies aren't going to come out with guns to compete with the race 1911 as Loves2shoot said. These companies didn't do it in the early and mid 90's when the USPSA was dying hard and ain't going to do it now. These comapanies make double action guns for a market a whole lot bigger than a shooting sport that is a pimple on the ass of the over all market demand. I can just see Sig coming out with a gun just for Limited Drop prodution and drop 9mm and you can put the last nail in the coffin that is called the USPSA. I for sure would leave, I'm done with the race guns. For all those who don't like seeing me or others shoot in a different division think how it would be when we aren't participating at all. If you don't like production or Lim 10 don't shoot it, if it bugs you so much that you can't get over it, take up golf. I think Mike's done a good job. The only thing Denise said she would do, or at least what I got out of her contentious ads, is that she would return to the old ways of doing things. The way that almost ran the USPSA out of busniess. I could ber wrong but with the tone of Denise's ads it was hard not to read into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 These gun companies aren't going to come out with guns to compete with the race 1911 as Loves2shoot said. I NEVER said that!!! I was taking Production/L10, and HK, Glock, and Berretta have already come out with new products designed to be competetive with the type of 1911 I WAS talking about. "ie single stack, bushing barrel, standard guide rod, 5lb trigger, no mag well." Get your facts strait before you flame someone please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 These gun companies aren't going to come out with guns to compete with the race 1911 as Loves2shoot said. I NEVER said that!!! Yes you did. "Get your facts strait before you flame someone please. " I didn't flame you, you started a debate and I participated. Don't start one if your going to be ultra defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 John, once again, I don't mind a debate, I don't like someone to say I said something that I did not or would not say. I said nothing about factory guns being produced to compete against RACE guns I just wanted to clarify your FALSE statement about what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Administrator mode on. John & L2S...please work this out OFF of the board. Thanks. Administrator mode off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 That is the perception that CAN be changed on TV. Showing the FGN and hopefully some regular shooters will go a long way. I've heard this idea before. And yes, this off the main topic, but it's worth discussing, I think. "It would so cool if a shooting video/TV show showed the regular shooters." It's been done. Lenny Magill produced a video covering Cowboy Action Shooting's End of Trail match, focusing on the very best shooters. It was one of the best, most fun shooting videos I've ever watched. Next year, he did another on the same match, but this time showed only "normal" shooters. It sucked. The thing is....normal shooters are boring to watch. They're slow, they miss a lot. There's just nothing interesting happening there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 On the TV line we watch tiger, and his crew, but no one wants to watch my dad golf, same with me and the boys playing softball they want to see the best, and Sammy can hit better than I. So to can Todd Jerry and Rob shot better than I,and no offence but probably better than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Norris Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I think coverage needs to be a balance between the "Omigod those guys aren't human" and the normal everyday shooter. I agree with Duane, it's entertaining as hell to watch a national champion run through a course, doing things that seemingly aren't possible. If it wasn't enteratining, demonstration shooters couldn't make a living. However, if that's ALL you see, then it seems an exercise in futility to even show up as a new shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 DT, Off topic but you are looking at it as a competitor. I don't want to watch a video of D class shooters either. Most of the hopefully new shooters see TJ, TGO smoke a stage and then they are afraid to get embarrassed and don't come out to play. Fear of failure stops more people from trying our sport than any of the made up BS excuses about arms races and 3000 dollar race guns. If they are going to properly promote our sport they need to show and explain that there are all levels of shooters not just the super squad. IDPA did well because there were no super stars when it first came out. The average guy looked at it and said I can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I gotta agree with Duane on this. My first year shooting I got to watch a bunch of tapes of the Nationals and the World Shoot. One of the tapes featured the "everyday shooter". It was just awful. And, I am the type to watch shooters at all levels...to pick up how things are done right, and wrong. Watching Mike Jordan play basketball never stopped me from lacing up the Chuck Taylor's (ok...Air Jordan's). Watching Tiger Woods golf wouldn't scare me off the links. As far as putting USPSA on the TV screen. Go man go. I didn't even know this stuff existed a few years back. Lets get the word out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 The people who are too afraid of being embarassed to come out and play will NEVER come out and play IMHO. Locally, those type people are most likely to come out of their shell to shoot IDPA. And locally, IDPA is so non-challenging (pandering to the embarassed ones) that I avoid shooting the match even though I can place very high in ESP on a regular basis. If the IDPA challenge increased (it probably will one day), those folks will likely drop out. At the risk of sounding evil, those kind of people we don't need. We need the kind of people who watch TGO and think "that looks like fun!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hi guys, The simplest solution for the TV coverage is "thoughtful" squadding to proudly present a family atmosphere, much like a golfing Pro-Am. What better time than to see Robbie & Todd shooting in the same squad against, say, ladies Lisa Munson & Debbie Keehart and, say, Juniors K.C. Eusebio and B.J. Norris, shooting everything from tricked out race guns to Glocks? Toss in a father & son or mother & daughter team for good measure, and you'll have everybody's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 And this brings up one of my pet peeves. Why in the name of God is six-time National Champion Lisa Munson not on the Super Squad at the Nationals, but instead stuck on the "lady's squad" with people who can't even touch her skill level? This seems to me more than a little sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Duane, Athena did ok against Lisa, oh wait she beat her, besides, after watching the gals shoot together, it looks like they were having a lot of fun together. I would assume since they are competing against each other for the Ladies National Championship (not the men's title) they can keep tabs on each other, although I wouldn't object to random squading one bit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Renee Tyson was only 17 points behind Lisa at FGN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Duane, Lisa finished 58th. To put her in the Super Squad would be treating her differently because of her sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Thread drift....... Thread dirft....... But while we're here. Why not a Junior Super Squad instead of having us spread out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 ....after watching the gals shoot together, it looks like they were having a lot of fun together..... It had me thinking that I wanted to shoot with them. My squad was great --- but the ladies looked like they were having more fun than anyone else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Thread drift....... Thread dirft.......But while we're here. Why not a Junior Super Squad instead of having us spread out? BJ, Because someone needs to supervise you youngsters ---- who knows what kinda trouble you'd all get into without parental supervision. It was one of the better ideas I've heard though for getting rid of the old folks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Why not a Junior Super Squad instead of having us spread out? BJ, I like it, and you have my vote. My squad was great --- but the ladies looked like they were having more fun than anyone else.... ? The ladies squad is one of my favorites to run. They are serious, but still have a great time.... and I think that every one of them loves what they are doing. Not that the guys don't.... it is just 'different'. I don't know how else to explain it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 BDH, Testoterone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 What I really like, at the big matches, is seeing what the ladies super-squad does when they *aren't* shooting. They have lunch together. They go out for dinner together They go shopping together. They actually seem to *like* each other ;-) Bruce PS - to BJ: cool idea on the Jr super-squad. No promises, but we'll give it a look. One of the issues is that juniors have to be "supervised" by their parent or guardian while on the range, so we'd have to squad the junior's parents with the juniors, too, but... we'll give it a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 ....after watching the gals shoot together, it looks like they were having a lot of fun together..... It had me thinking that I wanted to shoot with them. My squad was great --- but the ladies looked like they were having more fun than anyone else.... I've shot in the "Ladies" squad every year that I've shot Nationals. Not sure exactly how many that is. I think we do have more fun than everyone else. And it's also true that we socialize after range hours as well. Some of my best friends are ladies that I've met during my last 10 years of shooting USPSA matches. I've heard many people say that this is not a good thing for the top ladies overall place of finish which I would agree with to some extent. No lady belongs in the super squad until she breaks into the top 16 and I don't think that I personally would want to ever shoot in the super squad. I've been there at area matches and did not have much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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