Fed up, need some load advice

[Model19]

After two summers of using .357 brass in my two K-frames for IDPA and fun shooting at my club I've had enough of being noble about using the full length brass. Reloads are what is killing my scores. Having one or two pieces of brass hang up on each dump stinks. So it's time I get off my high horse and start playing the game as everybody else does.

I've been using Bullsye, 158gr JSP and .357 mag brass. My loads are safely over the minimum floor limits but not full strength mag stuff. Can I just substitute .38 brass and leave everything else alone? The reduced case volume will raise pressure I know, but since I'm not firing them in a plain .38 rated revo I'm hoping I can get away with it.

Any thoughts?

If this is a better question for the reload section feel free to bump me over there.

[oldtrooper]

Model 19

38 Brass will work fine. Consider trying some Bear Creek 158 RN moly coated with 4.2gr W231. You will need to chrono to be sure but you should be over the minimum floor for the power factor. The moly coated 158gr RN will load slicker than a greased pig. The JSP could be some of your problem with reloads. If you hit the edge of the cylinder charge hole and it has not been chamfered the edge of the charge hole can bite into the lead and cause a problem.

[Toolguy]

+1 Trooper! You need chamfered chambers (don't chamfer the star or it won't extract) and roundnose bullets for quick reloads.

To eject, get that muzzle up so gravity gets the cases out. To reload, get the muzzle down so gravity gets the fresh rounds in.

A lot of people think a 38 isn't accurate in a 357 chamber. Not true. A good 38 load will shoot just as good groups in a 357 chamber

as in a 38 chamber.

[Model19]

Thanks guys. My cylinders are chamfered. I did that myself and it was a noticeable improvement. My big headache has really been getting all the empties out in a hurry. The .38 brass should help that a ton. I've also done the speedloader mods. Guess it's time to load up with the shorter brass and no other changes and see what it shoots like.

[vrmn1]

Round nose bullets are the only way to fly.

Lead, plated or FMJ's.

The load may or may not be safe you didn't tell us the powder charge.

Even if it is safe why would you? Develope a load for 38 special cases that makes power with a little to spare and go with it.

Why put up with more recoil than you have to?

You are playing a game.

Thats all any of this is a game.

[Model19]

It's 5.4 gr of Bullseye. Looking at my Alliant Powder load book I see the only close load is for a +P load 160gr JSP using 3.7gr for 1710psi and 820fps. Maybe I better back my charge down to that to be safe. The magnum loads for that weight bullet show 6.8gr max but of course that's in the bigger case. It's a 3310 psi load, almost twice that +P load. The gys who first worked up full power 357 loads in their old .38's were brave SOB's!

[Bubber]

It's 5.4 gr of Bullseye. Looking at my Alliant Powder load book I see the only close load is for a +P load 160gr JSP using 3.7gr for 1710psi and 820fps. Maybe I better back my charge down to that to be safe. The magnum loads for that weight bullet show 6.8gr max but of course that's in the bigger case. It's a 3310 psi load, almost twice that +P load. The gys who first worked up full power 357 loads in their old .38's were brave SOB's!

Model19, Yeup, I'd puller down a mite. The loading Maunuals dow days are conservative but all you need is 781 fps to get the lower floor. My newer (foutth eddition) Honaday list 4.1 as the max charge for a 158 grain jacketed bullet at 800fps. 4.1 of Solo gave me @ 853 in a lead 160 grain bullet. I will try to find my older manual (Second edition) and check for a load. And every revo is slightly different and will net different results, approach cautiously. Later rdd

Edited ( Found the OLD Book) My Old Hornaday Manual is not as conservative. It lists 4.3 grains for 750 fps, 4.6 grains for 800 fps, 4.8 grains for 850 and a max of 5.1 for 900 fps in a jacketed 158 grain bullet, Also it allows lead to go higher (5.7 for 1050 fps) BUT BEWARE!! Powders may have changed over the years so it could be that much different. CAUTION and a chronograph would be recommended. Oh yea 4.1 lists as 850 for a lead bullet. later rdd

Edited August 31, 2008 by Bubber

[vrmn1]

Yeah you might better back up and regroup.

Heck that load looks a might steep for 357 cases.

I have used like 4.5gr of Unique behind my cast 158's for years for plinking and such.

And for Steel Challenge with my 4" k frames. That is a little low to make power floor but it is also very light and can be bumped up a little to make power.

[Flexmoney]

Can I just substitute .38 brass and leave everything else alone?

Yeah you might better back up and regroup.

By all means.

There is no reason/need to guess. You are starting fresh. Do proper load developement and be safe and happy.

[hopalong]

M19,

If you're having trouble with empty brass coming out, until you change to cleaner powder and keep your cylinder clean you will still have trouble.

You need to find a really clean burning powder. (I can't help as I don't do 38/357 sorry) and if you shoot lead you'll need to find some with a lube that doesn't foul/smoke (dry lubed bullets are best for that) or go with Jacketed or the Black/molly type (precision/ barney ect.)

another thing. When doing your reload. make sure the muzzle is pretty much up before you hit the ejector rod or you'll have trouble with the cases getting behind the star. Let gravity help and be your friend.

also, get some FLITZ metal polish and POLISH the chambers (dremmell and a really soft wheel) so they are shiney on the inside (shiney does not foul as quick, it's a metalurgy thing).

good luck with it.

HOPALONG

Edit to add:

Or you can do as I do. Shoot lead and deal with the dirty/smoke, ect. for practice but when you go shoot a match that matters change over to your clean loads. (you'll just have to clean it more often that way)

Edited August 31, 2008 by hopalong

[colt]

I shoot 4.0 GR. Bullseye in 38 brass. 158 RN that I make out of wheel wights .About 140 power factor out of my 686 with 6'' barrel for ICORE .

[johnnybravo]

I shoot 4.0 GR. Bullseye in 38 brass. 158 RN that I make out of wheel wights .About 140 power factor out of my 686 with 6'' barrel for ICORE .

Hello, colt

what a coincidence. I use the same exact same load set up. I use that load for ICORE and USPSA revolver division. I also use the cheapest bullet lube I can get my hands on. No problem with leading, powder residue build up or stuff like that, any more than other combos of powders, bullets, etc.

[RePete]

I load 4.2gr/Bullseye under a 158gr LSWC for a PF of 138.

[revchuck]

4.1 grains of Bullseye under a 158 grain RNL makes about 830 fps from my 4" guns. It's smoky, though.

With a jacketed bullet, I'd back down to about 4.5 grains and chrono it and proceed (in either direction) from there as needed.

[Bill Nesbitt]

With a jacketed bullet, I'd back down to about 4.5 grains and chrono it and proceed (in either direction) from there as needed.

That works for me with Bullseye and a 158 plated RN from Barry.

I've found that the brand of brass will make a little difference. I get slightly higher velocities using Winchester brass.

[ffl]

can you use other cartridges in idap?

38 Short colt is great. That us what Little FFL uses in his ICORE gun.

short enough to eject even with a bullet.

[RePete]

can you use other cartridges in idap?

38 Short colt is great. That us what Little FFL uses in his ICORE gun.

short enough to eject even with a bullet.

As long as you can make the PF of 125000.

[jmax]

I use 38 long Colt brass, 3.3 gr Clays (much cleaner that WW231 or Bulseye have charcoal smoke and leaves residue or un burned power beneath the extractor) and a 158 gr Bear Creek moly coated bullet. Two years running at the IRC with a 128k power factor. Low smoke, no residue and slick extraction.

[kframe_mike]

A 158LRN with 3.7gr of WST in a Special case does it for me,generally 125-130 PF out of most of our stuff.-Mike

Edited September 2, 2008 by kframe_mike

[jasond]

I don't shoot IDPA, you have to use speedloaders, right? I use 158 plated, short colt, 3.4 red dot for 132 pf out of my 627.

I don't know if the shorts will work better or worse with speedloaders, but they're the stuff for moonclips!

I have a bunch of hornady 158 lrn in 38 spl that I loaded as plinkers, which could double as emergency match ammo. Best lead bullet I've tried, it's just harder to get special cases in and out of the gun.

Who sells 158 fmj's?

[Gregg K]

can you use other cartridges in idap?

38 Short colt is great. That us what Little FFL uses in his ICORE gun.

short enough to eject even with a bullet.

Robert Ray at IDPA HQ has said no short colt cartridges.

[Carmoney]

So typical. You find something that works better, they don't want you using it. They sure don't want anyone to become too fast or too proficient.

[Gregg K]

So typical. You find something that works better, they don't want you using it. They sure don't want anyone to become too fast or too proficient.

I'm not defending it. I could not defend it with the rule book if I wanted to since there is nothing in it other than you have to make 125. It's just what is for whatever reason.

[Tom E]

So typical. You find something that works better, they don't want you using it.

Especially if you're shooting a revolver.

[Rogan]

For ICORE, using a 627, I'm shooting a 135gr Billy Bullet(moly), with 4.7gr VV N320, PF128-130. Very clean!! If you go to 4.8 grains you'll be close to 135PF. This is in a 38special case.

Yea, yea...I know, Vit is expensive. But my gun works flawlessly. so I have one less variable to worry about. I can shoot an entire match without cleaning anything.