badchad Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I’ve been shooting my Rock River Arms M4 in local 3 gun competitions (Tactical Division) in the last year. I was going to upgrade my M4 a little bit and make it last longer, just ordered a Miculek brake and a Millet 1-4 illuminated scope. However the front sight obstructing my lower powered scope is making me think I might was well jump to something better sooner rather than later. I’m not familiar enough with working on AR15 that I would want to build one myself, nor do I know what all the best individual parts are, so I think I’m best getting a complete rifle. I won’t say price is no object but I think I would like to buy a rifle that’s good to go, and is as competitive as I’ll ever need it, right from the start. From doing a search it seems like a 20” medium contour JP-15 sounds like it’s as good as I can do. Anything else I should consider for a comparable or lesser price? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Gonsalves Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Call Benny Hill Triangle Shooting Sports (361) 241-1091 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 The JP is a fine choice, as would be the Sabre Defence competition rifles. Both heavily support our sport, and both have good customer service. You could also have a Triangle Shooting sports rifle made for you, Benny does good work, and makes a very nice comp for the rifle as well. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 What the dog said !!!! Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 badchad- I'd jump all over this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69967 Benny-built tactical rifle. Cheers. -br Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y. Koester Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Throw down for a ctr 02 upper. Get a lower with a jp trigger in it and you should be good to go!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I sometimes wonder if we have a guy posting this question each month here just to see if anyone's taste has changed from the previous threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Take a hacksaw to front sight, put a drop in trigger in your good to go with less money spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cksh8me Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 My experience has been there's JP and then everything else. You might think about getting a new trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Take a hacksaw to front sight, put a drop in trigger in your good to go with less money spent. +1 I would also add a rifle length free float hand guard. Those carbine handguards are kind of small when a beta is in the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 If you go with JP take a serious look at the 18" med taper barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) My experience has been there's JP and then everything else. You might think about getting a new trigger. I much prefer the Geissele triggers to the JP unit. The JP unit has a great pull until it start to double. The JP unit has to constantly be adjusted to keep it in proper working order. Mine started doubling after just 1000 rounds. I had to send it back to them to get it re tuned. All my AR's have Geissele two stage triggers now. My three guns trigger is set at 2.5 pounds and it has a very positive reset. http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:VlGFb...lient=firefox-a Edited August 25, 2008 by Nik Habicht Edited to remove trigger bickering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmilk9 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I've installed many of both triggers over my many years building AR's. The JP trigger is a great trigger, but you must locktite the 2 screws or it will double or not reset. Of course opinions vary, but my favorite trigger is the McCormick 2 stage. I've been running one for 5 years or so. On barrels, I run an 18" also, far superior in my opinion on accuracy and reliability. I prefer a stainless barrel over a chrome lined or chromoly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) I have two J.P rifles, one is on it,s second barrle, one is on it,s third, I have never had one double BTW rifle # 1 is set at 2.25 and rifle #2 is just a bit below 2lbs. Edited August 25, 2008 by Nik Habicht Edited to remove trigger bickering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I've had a JP lower for 6 years (has it been that long? good grief, I need a new rifle!!!) with a JP installed trigger and no doubling. (there is a big difference between doubling, and bumpfiring which can be done with just about any AR...) I can conservativly say the lower has seen no less than 25,000 rounds fired, with one complete trigger spring change sometime around 15,000. The trigger has been great, never needed "tuning" and never given me a problem. it is set right at 2.0# as far as I'm concerned, the JP trigger is the ONLY trigger to use... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Sure love my JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 From reading past posts I saw it mentioned that most of the top finishers at nationals are shooting 20” barrels, is that still correct? Also it seems a medium weight barrel is the best compromise stability and transition speed? If I got with a JP is there really much difference between a CTR-02 and a JP-15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) 20" barrels and 18" barrels seem to be the most popular, with 20" being #1. I've never shot or handled a JP15, but the CTR02 is a wonderful gun, accurate and beautiful. The ones I've shot have always impressed me. I believe Bryan Payne on the forum has a JP15, you might ask an opinion from him. Trapr As for the "trigger debate", I've seen some trigger units that needed some serious cleaning, this can also cause problems with doubling or failing as well, housekeeping duties on guns seems to be very low on some shooters lists. Edited August 25, 2008 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) ON the JP15 vs the CTR-02.......both rifles use the same barrels, same bolts, same bolt carriers, etc, etc.....the only difference is the receivers. If you want the cool factor....then go with the CTR, otherwise, the JP15 is put together with the same care as the CTR. Edited August 25, 2008 by Nik Habicht Edited to remove trigger bickering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 What about those Firebirds? If I get a gun built from ground up what kind of set up would I ask for? Will it be a lot more expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) BC, could you clarify the question a little...? Are you asking for a component list to be installed into a firebird receiver set? 18" to 20" 1:8 barrel, medium contour, your choice of brake, lightweight forearm like a Clark carbon fiber or JP Vtac, DPMS parts kits (springs and pins), LW bolt, JP carrier, JP trigger set up (with 284 votes for JP, 2 for RR, and 1 for Giselle you get the drift), full length stock and buffer, pistol grip to suit your taste. Accessorize later with extended controls if thats what floats your boat, but remember its more to get caught on something/break that is not totally necessary. Optic to suit your budget, same thing with rings/base. That should just about cover it. Edited August 25, 2008 by ken hebert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 If you have advice for the original poster --- on how to configure a rifle for Tactical Division --- please post it. If you wish to engage in a debate over the superiority/suitability of JP triggers vs. Geissele triggers --- take it to PMs, because that topic is done on this board! Note --- We have no problems with people noting that they've had a trouble free YY trigger system for zzzz rounds. We have no problem if someone states that they prefer a AA trigger to a YY trigger. We do have a problem when the posting turns from informative to back and forth bickering..... I've culled a bunch of the back and forth posts, I've edited a few others to remove the off topic content, and leave the on topic stuff. Please don't make me do that again. I'm not sending individual pms to the 1/2 dozen or so folks involved --- if you have questions or concerns, feel free to drop me a pm. Thank You! In my very limited rifle experience, my JP-15 upper has been outstanding. I called JP about 3-4 years ago, told them I wanted an light weight upper for Tactical Division, with the short range irons on the handguard, that I wanted the handguards to be blue, and that I wanted the rifle to run. I asked to please place reliability over wringing the utmost out of it in tuneability --- so I ended up with a normal weight bolt carrier for instance. It ended up as an 18" medium or light weight barrel -- can't remember which -- with a Bennie Cooley comp, on a JP-15 upper with the smaller diameter free float tube. I also sent them my lower for a trigger job --- it's worked perfectly for the last four years or so. I've only got about 3-4000 rounds through the rifle, not a lot by some people's standards on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 BC, could you clarify the question a little...? Are you asking for a component list to be installed into a firebird receiver set? I’ve been reading good things about the Firebird guns so that’s an option. However I wouldn’t know what to ask for with regards to parts. I think I want a 20” barrel of medium weight, a lightened bolt carrier and a good comp, a good trigger, but I’m not sure what all the best setups are and I imagine opinions vary greatly. I guess what I’m looking for is what’s closest to the standard set up used by the majority top shooters in tactical division, that’s top notch but not breaking the bank with expensive/exotic parts that I’m not going to notice the difference with anyway. I just don’t want to plunk down a large chunk of change and later think I should have done something different. 18" to 20" 1:8 barrel, medium contour, your choice of brake, lightweight forearm like a Clark carbon fiber or JP Vtac, DPMS parts kits (springs and pins), LW bolt, JP carrier, JP trigger set up (with 284 votes for JP, 2 for RR, and 1 for Giselle you get the drift), full length stock and buffer, pistol grip to suit your taste. Accessorize later with extended controls if thats what floats your boat, but remember its more to get caught on something/break that is not totally necessary. Optic to suit your budget, same thing with rings/base.That should just about cover it. Yes, it does thanks. Oh yeah, do I need or want an adjustable gas system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 If you have a budegt amount that would help.. and also decide a few things.. The adjustable gas block is nit a must have, but it can help. Enough to matter.. maybe, maybe not. I think it helps with reducing the impulse, but I shot mine for 2 years without touching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 If you have a budegt amount that would help.. I don’t really have a budget. The JP-15 still sounds like it’s a great rifle as is, for $1900. I’m willing to spend that if I have to, but if I can spend less for identical or better performance I’d prefer it. I’d spend a bit more if I have to as well, but I’d want the performance difference to be very noticeable. My RRA has never let me down in a match and I want the same reliability any other gun I would get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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