BigDave Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 This is basically a question for Limited, L-10 and Production shooters, but if you Open drivers have something to share, bring it on. What do you see when shooting targets, open shots (no hard or soft cover) at distances less than 15 yards? Again, what do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Mostly just the target at seven yards or less. From there to 10 or so I usually remember seeing the front sight somewhere, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I have been working on snapping my eyes to the next target. So lately I'm seeing my second shot miss impact the berm out of the corner of my eye while I'm transitioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 At 1-3 yards or so I use my index and just look to the target. At 4-6 or so I see a ghostly image (stole that from Burkett) of the pistol surrounded by brown. At 7-10 I see a flash sight picture. Beyond that I see a decent sight picture with a defined "lift". Better shooters with better vision can probably extend those distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 More or less, what Ron said. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Basically what Ron said also, but on 3-10 yards, I think of it as looking through or past my sights. When shooting a dot, you are just superimposing the dot on the target, but actually looking at the targets, at least that's the way I've always thought of it. I try to do the same with irons, looking through or past my sights and looking at the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 My style is kinda like Ron said,,,,only I cut out a step. 1 to 3,,,,,index out to about 10 a flash picture since I can go pretty darn fast with a flash picture beyond 10 a more defined picture. My little pea brain just won't process as fast, so I opted to oust one type of picture for the sake of simplicity. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 What Ron said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I'm with rhino, even though I can usually hit paper targets inside of 15 yards without the sights. If you dry fire enough you will gain a great index. I NEVER see anything like a ghostly image of the gun, maybe I should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 When I'm in Flow, I see everything. Muzzle blast, empty brass, hole in target. When I'm not but I'm doing well, I see the front sight lifting off the target. If not those two states, I'm usually looking at my scoresheet and seeing Mikes and D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 The days i shoot the best are the ones when i see the sights with the utmost clarity, even with 7 yard hosers. This is a good habit to develop at any distance. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I'm with Ong45 I am finding in getting back into shooting limited that the more I see, the faster I go. Even on the hoser stages. I started off shooting my index on close targets, but shooting my vision seems to be faster (according to the timer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I need to see my front sight with at least some degree of clarity at any distance, any speed. As the distance increases the clarity of the front sight must increase. I haven't figured out how to call my shots without seeing some sort of front sight picture. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 You could try using the force (aka fistfire) (just kidding) You must SEE to BE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Remember, you need to see what you need to see to make the shot. Yesterday we shot an IDPA scenario where the first target was shot from retention, the second target was at perhaps 5 yards to the left and the third target was a tight shot at perhaps 8 yards to the right hiding behind a no-shoot. I shot the first target as soon as I cleared the holster from retention. The second target, the left one, (tactical priority don't ya know) from an index looking through the sights, and the third target with a very well defined sight picture, seeing the sight lift and return. The time was 2.34 seconds and I know the really good shooters can do it faster. At that kind of speed experience, trust, and high speed processing takes over. You can't be thinking about the sight picture because you need to drive the gun and drive it hard. Only you know how much or how little you need to see to make the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I don't know Ron...some of my best hosing recently has been with a sight picture. ... I might have to play with this one some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 When I'm in Flow, I see everything. Muzzle blast, empty brass, hole in target. When I'm not but I'm doing well, I see the front sight lifting off the target. If not those two states, I'm usually looking at my scoresheet and seeing Mikes and D's. Yeah, been in this state too once in a while. What I find amazing is how steel "seems to fall" very slowly while in this state. I'm usually in my 3rd shot on a third target before I "notice" (peripherally) the steel actually moving (or the plate falling). Very cool experience! I also agree with what ong said about seeing the sight for every shot regardless of distance. I see the sight, break the shot, call the hit. But I can't seem to remember doing each action (per shot) after the stage. But I know how many points I dropped (but not all the time). It just struck me that maybe some people confuse seeing the sight with how much time you're actually looking at the sight but not doing anything. But what do I know, I'm still figuring out why I missed when I thought I knew what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Flexmoney: Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. Up until recently I have been seeing the dot or seeing the sights on everything, including the close targets. Been playing with my revolver a lot and I have finally quit obsessing over the sights. As a result, I discovered that I don't need to look "at" the sights at all on the close hoser stuff. I look through them or you could think of it as looking around them and beyond them. In other words, my focus isn't on the sights, it's on the target or split between the target and the front sight. I'll probably fall on my butt and be back to the sights shortly, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 For me - its all visual interpretation - and that changes daily. On targets I see as extremely close I look over the gun, don't acknowledge the sights, and simply look where I want the bullet to go. As targets move out I begin to interpret the formulation to know what it is going to take to get the desired result. 15 yrds for me GENERALLY requires sights and visible lift although at times I've simply looked over and shot out. 25 yards to me is the perfect distance because it emphasis' doing what is right but it is possible to shoot quickly if you open up and interpret the visual input properly. Inside of 5 yards I probably don't know what sights are - which forces me to be careful about moving the gun too quickly. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Sounds just like the types of focus in The Book! And yes, I also use the same 'look through the sights' mode when they are up close. Now if I could learn to stop using the sights on those same hoser targets every time I'd be FASTER too. Oh well, 20 plus years of bullseye have made some habits hard to break! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I find I shoot more quickly, accurately, and consistently if I find the exact spot on the target I intend to shoot before the gun gets there, then by the time the sights get there have a sharp focus on the sights - stay right on the sights until all shots have been called, and then repeat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Exactly. My best times on bowling pins happened when I picked a particular bullet hole in the sweet spot of each pin, and locked the front sight to it before shooting. The result was four pins in four shots, and the fifth pin hit twice before it cleared the table. Much loot earned that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Much loot earned that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 How much I see at a given distance depends upon what type of zone I am in or not. Sometimes I have finished a stage and have no concious recollection of anything after the beep. Sometimes it is total awareness of everything including how far away the RO was behind me. Thats really wierd. Third person freaks me out, luckily it hasn't happened in a long time. All types have led to stage/match wins. There doesn't seem to be a way, but, many ways to good performance. Most of the time matches are different than practice as far as what I see. In practice, I tend to do what I "preach" or what Ron has stolen. My goal being to push out the limitations of each and learn what is possible for me at a given time. Wow, get off a 9 hour flight and bingo goes the zen boy. Take care, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 At high speed I don't remember seeing anything. If it's an array of targets, I remember seeing the first target as the buzzer going off and the guns coming out.......... .....my next conscious thought is "stick to the plan" which means hit my reloads and position my body at the pre-planned spots. When I do the scoring walk, I'm sometimes suprised to see that I got all A's on an array I don't remember shooting! Usually, if there's one thing I do remember about shooting a stage, it's seeing the front sight on distant targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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