Jack Mahogoff Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hello everyone I'm the new guy, figured i'd introduce myself and ask for a bit of advice. First off, about me. I'm 27 and an (new) LEO. Firearms training has really sparked my intrest in shooting. I've been lucky to have firearms instructors who care as much (if not more) about survival training than just passing the POST coarse. Now, don't get me wrong..i'm not new to firearms. I was introduce to them at a very young age, shooting my grandpa's 22lr out behind his house. Hunting was a big part of my life growing up, and i got my conceal/carry permit about 4 years ago. But, that being said, i never had any formal instruction until now, and TBH i've never had so much fun in my life Our instructor had us shoot 2+2+2 on a 3 piece steel coarse (2 shots, reload, 2 shots..etc)...now that was a blast. soooooo i've decided to take up shooting as a hobby. I've been researching the past few days and am getting kinda lost in all the info. Ive read about reloading, watched a ton of match footage. But after reading these forums, i figured one of the best coarses of action would be to just ask what you'd do in my situation. Now, the good news is i live about 5 mins from Clarks Shootout range (lf to seeing some of u at the 3 gun nationals in oct) ... the bad news being my limited resources as my wife and i have a beutiful 4mth old daughter. My PD range is open about once a month, and i have a free range available to me on weekends, but, it only alows for static shooting from the 7 yard line (no movement/drawing) .. My skills are fairly good, i shoot a Glock 19 (my conceal weapon) and a glock 22 (my duty weapon). I'm a bit confused about dryfire practice, as i can only pull the trigger once on my glocks before racking the slide to reset the trigger. So, what would you do first? Join a club? setup for reloading? buy books? All of it? I know its kind of a wide subject, but i'm hoping to get some advice on where/how to start shooting on limited resources. thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb45acp Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hey Jack, Welcome to the forums and thank you for your service. FWIW, my opinion is that you should invest a little money and buy Steve Anderson's dry fire books and start dry firing at least 15-30 min a day. You can do more as you build your skill base. Don't worry about compressing the trigger, you don't have to do that for a majority of the drills and it will help with all your essential weapon manipulation skills. You will need a timer to set your par times with, but they aren't that expensive and Clark's may have one. If your PD range only allows for static practice, then practice your accuracy with group shooting and be sure to include strong and weak hand only drills. If you're limited to 7 yards, just use progressively smaller dots for targets. Does or will your dept alot extra training ammo for officers that want to practice more? If you're looking for matches, they shoot IDPA at Clark's and USPSA at Texarkana and Tyler, Tx. Hope this helps you get started and hope to see you on the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Welcome! Sounds like you're off to a running start! Best bet is to go to www.uspsa.org and do a club lookup and get the contact info for the local club and send them a note or give them a call to let them know you're interested. They'll invite you out to a match and/or practice where you can see how things are done and get a feel for the overall scene. You've already got a perfectly good gun to shoot in Production division (the G-22). You'll want at least five mags and enough mag pouches to hold four on the belt. Your duty holster will work in the beginning, but most folks use an open top kydex style holster (Comp-Tac, Blade-Tech, Safariland 567/568 etc). One of those holsters and two Uncle Mikes cheapie double pouches and a stiff belt are about all the gear you need to get started. While it's a slight disadvantage, good old Winchester White box generic ammo will be fine (eventually you may want to reload to save some money (really just shoot more with the same money) and have a bit less recoil since you don't need full-power ammo for Production. The really cool thing is that folks will almost certainly lend you stuff if you don't quite have everything put together just yet....it's kind of a tradition. In fact, I've got a slightly worn open top kydex holster for a G-22 that you can have...it works fine (pretty fast really), but I was issued a new replacement and don't even use that one except for when I'm teaching. PM me with info and I'll send it your way. I may even have a double pouch I'm not using as well....I've got a bag of stuff I don't use, so I'll check. No use in having it sit in my closet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mahogoff Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hey Jack, Welcome to the forums and thank you for your service. FWIW, my opinion is that you should invest a little money and buy Steve Anderson's dry fire books and start dry firing at least 15-30 min a day. You can do more as you build your skill base. Don't worry about compressing the trigger, you don't have to do that for a majority of the drills and it will help with all your essential weapon manipulation skills. You will need a timer to set your par times with, but they aren't that expensive and Clark's may have one. If your PD range only allows for static practice, then practice your accuracy with group shooting and be sure to include strong and weak hand only drills. If you're limited to 7 yards, just use progressively smaller dots for targets. Does or will your dept alot extra training ammo for officers that want to practice more? If you're looking for matches, they shoot IDPA at Clark's and USPSA at Texarkana and Tyler, Tx. Hope this helps you get started and hope to see you on the range. Thnx The static only is a free range about 30 mins from here. My PD has an "open range day" about once a month. There, we can run and gun, shoot steel, things of that nature. They allow us 78 rnds per range day. Why 78? Our post coarse (in Louisiana) consists of 60 rounds, 18 of which are fired from the 25 yard line. So they allow you enough for a full post coarse, plus 18 more rounds to shoot the 25 a second time. I am good friends with both range masters, so i could prob get a couple hundred rounds to practice with. IDPA 'eh. k...gotta look them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mahogoff Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Welcome!Sounds like you're off to a running start! Best bet is to go to www.uspsa.org and do a club lookup and get the contact info for the local club and send them a note or give them a call to let them know you're interested. They'll invite you out to a match and/or practice where you can see how things are done and get a feel for the overall scene. You've already got a perfectly good gun to shoot in Production division (the G-22). You'll want at least five mags and enough mag pouches to hold four on the belt. Your duty holster will work in the beginning, but most folks use an open top kydex style holster (Comp-Tac, Blade-Tech, Safariland 567/568 etc). One of those holsters and two Uncle Mikes cheapie double pouches and a stiff belt are about all the gear you need to get started. While it's a slight disadvantage, good old Winchester White box generic ammo will be fine (eventually you may want to reload to save some money (really just shoot more with the same money) and have a bit less recoil since you don't need full-power ammo for Production. The really cool thing is that folks will almost certainly lend you stuff if you don't quite have everything put together just yet....it's kind of a tradition. In fact, I've got a slightly worn open top kydex holster for a G-22 that you can have...it works fine (pretty fast really), but I was issued a new replacement and don't even use that one except for when I'm teaching. PM me with info and I'll send it your way. I may even have a double pouch I'm not using as well....I've got a bag of stuff I don't use, so I'll check. No use in having it sit in my closet! Knew i came to the right place! I stopped by Clarks yesterday. Spoke to Renee(sp) She is a national champion, though i'm not sure in what. She was patient and answered all my questions, even offered to setup a dillon 550 for me if i got one. Seems to be a great sport with a great participant base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 There's something else you might want to consider as you proceed into this endevor. The USPSA/IPSC sort of match is geared toward speed and some accuracy. The skills used to excel at this might be counter to what you want to train you subconscience to perform. The IDPA sort of match is geared toward more of the accuracy side with time being a factor. It requires skills that may be beneficial to gunfights. (I don't have any first hand experience with gunfights) All that said, there are several LEO folks that regularly compete in local USPSA/IPSC matches. I've asked a couple of these guys about my thoughts on this, and their take is that these matches help their gun handling skills. They figure there's a whole different set of skills that allow a person to do the right tactical movement to stay alive and that this is separate from gun handling. Generally, I've found that the folks that participate in the USPSA/IPSC matches are more interested in becoming the best they can be handling a pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hi and welcome to the forums. It's a great bunch! I think the best advice I ever got was "Run, don't walk to the nearest shredder and insert any and ALL credit cards!!" (Like that did any good, LOL!) Seriously, you have duty gear, you have a gun, therefore you have the basics to get started in USPSA or IDPA. HAVE FUN!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Generally, I've found that the folks that participate in the USPSA/IPSC matches are more interested in becoming the best they can be handling a pistol. I've never heard it said any better than that. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSDK1911 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Generally, I've found that the folks that participate in the USPSA/IPSC matches are more interested in becoming the best they can be handling a pistol. I've never heard it said any better than that. I like it. Welcome to the forum Jack! Observe, join & shoot! Not necessarily in that order.... Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_kahuna Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Welcome to the forums. Plenty of good info here. I'd probably start scanning the USPSA/IPSC Rules forum, then move to training and techniques, if you want to get a good handle on the sport in general. I'm a bit confused about dryfire practice, as i can only pull the trigger once on my glocks before racking the slide to reset the trigger. As far as drypractice goes, glocks are fairly easy to drypractice with. To set your trigger, use an old credit card or cardboard to cut a small rectangle about 1/2" long and just wide enough to fit into the top of your breech face. Set the card over the breech face just high enough to touch the barrel when its as far forward as you can get it. Make sure it doesnt obstruct your sight picture. The recoil spring ought to be enough to hold the piece of credit card firmly between the barrel and the breech face. The gun should be JUST out of battery, and the trigger will be at like 97% of its full travel, and will reset automatically. PM me for further instructions if that wasnt very clear lol. Steve Anderson's book is rad for dryfire, I'd definitely try to get my hands on a copy. And you should also look into Brian's book too. It's like the practical shooting bible Good luck hope I helped -Nick Edited July 16, 2008 by little_kahuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I suggest that you check out the rules at both the USPSA and IDPA web sites for the rules and etc. Lots of good info there. Welcome to the addiction, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Is your hog cute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Jack a big welcome to you and thanks for your service. You gotta shoot USPSA. It's the best thing I've discovered. I always said to myself, "SELF, if I were a law officer, I' d be out here learning how to do this really well cuz my life might depend on it [ and the life of others]." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwit Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Oh, yeah, one of the most important things I almost forgot. If you can get the wife a good job or even a second job, you can buy lots more cool toys to shoot. We have guns that look almost like STAR WARS stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hobby ??? When you get hooked, addicted, obsessed, and you will, you will understand why this is no hobby !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 (edited) ...So, what would you do first? ... Jack, GET TO A MATCH! Tell them you're new to competition shooting. Ask lots of questions. Your gun handling and shooting skills will take dramatic leaps forward as you play these games. Above all - stay safe and have fun! You'll pick up on all the "other stuff...reloading, techniques, strategies, etc" as you go. It's most important that you GET TO A MATCH! And as others have said, welcome. Edited July 17, 2008 by joseywales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hello everyone I'm the new guy, figured i'd introduce myself and ask for a bit of advice. First off, about me. I'm 27 and an (new) LEO. Firearms training has really sparked my intrest in shooting. I've been lucky to have firearms instructors who care as much (if not more) about survival training than just passing the POST coarse. Now, don't get me wrong..i'm not new to firearms. I was introduce to them at a very young age, shooting my grandpa's 22lr out behind his house. Hunting was a big part of my life growing up, and i got my conceal/carry permit about 4 years ago. But, that being said, i never had any formal instruction until now, and TBH i've never had so much fun in my life Our instructor had us shoot 2+2+2 on a 3 piece steel coarse (2 shots, reload, 2 shots..etc)...now that was a blast. soooooo i've decided to take up shooting as a hobby. I've been researching the past few days and am getting kinda lost in all the info. Ive read about reloading, watched a ton of match footage. But after reading these forums, i figured one of the best coarses of action would be to just ask what you'd do in my situation. Now, the good news is i live about 5 mins from Clarks Shootout range (lf to seeing some of u at the 3 gun nationals in oct) ... the bad news being my limited resources as my wife and i have a beutiful 4mth old daughter. My PD range is open about once a month, and i have a free range available to me on weekends, but, it only alows for static shooting from the 7 yard line (no movement/drawing) .. My skills are fairly good, i shoot a Glock 19 (my conceal weapon) and a glock 22 (my duty weapon). I'm a bit confused about dryfire practice, as i can only pull the trigger once on my glocks before racking the slide to reset the trigger. So, what would you do first? Join a club? setup for reloading? buy books? All of it? I know its kind of a wide subject, but i'm hoping to get some advice on where/how to start shooting on limited resources. thanks in advance My advice, for what it's worth. Go to the seediest part of your town, and find a crack dealer. Buy whatever it is he is selling and smoke it. In the long run it will be cheaper and less addictive than this sport. Welcome to the club. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I use a glock and have started shooting fairly recently, much like yourself. I was a casual shooter for most of my life, but I quickly learned that I didn't know a thing once I started competing. First rule: It's not the equipment. You need a Kydex holster, some Bladetech double mag pouches, and safety equipment. That's it, for a long time. Second rule: It's the trigger. As a LEO, I imagine you wouldn't want to touch the trigger on either of your carry guns, so you're going to need considerable effort to maintain trigger control on a stock Glock. I would suggest dryfire, both with the "trick" of blocking the slide from closing, AND working the slide for a full release. There's going to be considerable additional action on that trigger. For speed, work on not letting the trigger all the way out after each shot; learn where the reset is, and try to program in accomplishing just that, and no more. This will take out a lot of movement, as well as perceived weight. Also, some aftermarket sights wouldn't be a bad idea, if you're allowed to do that on a service weapon. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hmmm. My department officially allows for 100 rounds per month per officer to practice. However, there are enough lazy-asses on the department that even now, when the range personnel are having to go buy ammo at Walmart and Academy Sports (because of ammo shortages) I can still get substantially more than that to practice. Ask. If that doesn't work, put on a fake mustache and aviator sunglasses, and get a second ration of ammo. Many will argue about whether IDPA or IPSC is better for "tactical" training purposes. Shooting either is much, much, MUCH better than just shooting the CLEET course (which is the LE qualifying course in my neck of the woods). The differences between the two are minute, compared with the difference between either discipline and the CLEET qualification course. In the CLEET course, there is a possible maximum score. You're allowed 5 seconds (!) to score two hits from 25 yards. If you do it in 3 seconds, it doesn't get you any more points. That isn't true in IPSC, IDPA, or the street. If you shoot IPSC long enough, you will experience malfunctions, or commit serious errors. You'll have to correct them. In the CLEET course, if your gun malfunctions, there probably isn't enough time to correct it and still complete the string...so most officers don't correct it like their life (or their match score) depended on it...they realize they can't get it, and take their sweet time. Get yourself to a match, and then the next one, and the next. There are plenty in Louisiana. You will learn faster that way, than any other way. Good luck, DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 IMHO, ask a lot of questions. Some shooters will advise you to buy expensive stuff, ignore that for now. You need loads of ammo and trigger time now, not nice toys. Imprint this into your memory - you cannot buy a solution, ever. Rather get ammo and practice, practice, practice. ( If I took my own advice I would have been a A shooter, at the least and not a B or bottom feeder). Expect to have civilians beat you in the beginning. That is why so many LEO`s shoot once and never again. Expect it, there is no dishonor in having your butt kicked by a civilian that has been participating in this sport since the 1960`s. He knows all the shortcuts there is and probably shoots about 1000 rounds per month in practice and competition. (DO the math 576000 rounds since 1960 to the end of this year. He should be marvelous at the sport)You will get better and and start overtaking people, just not right away. USPSA/IPSC/IPDPA is a brilliant way of honing the warriors edge. As a LEO you WILL sooner or later need that sharp edge. It is nice if your sport one day saves our life. Johann Buys Captain(Retired) SAPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) http://www.texarkanagunclub.org/ We're not that far from you, we shoot USPSA matches the first Saturday of the month. You're just in time to catch the August match on the 9th, we will start at 10:00 A.M. GPS coord on the website. Since you'll be coming in from Shreveport direction, the range will be easy to get to. If you have any questions, PM me here. If you have questions about gear, just bring your duty rig and duty weapon, worry about gear after you've seen a couple of matches. Or, if I know for sure you're coming, I'll just bring you a Glock holster rig. Bring 200 rounds and 4 mags, that should be plenty. If you're short of mags, let me know. If you're short on ammo, let me know. If it's your first match, I'll spot your entry fee. Bring lots of questions, and ask them all. When you get to the range, ask for Odie. Edited July 20, 2008 by Odie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mahogoff Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Wow, sory i havn't replied, my laptop decided to die on me, had to ship it back to hp for a new motherboard I should clarify that i'm still in the police academy ..got a month to go. We qualified for POST yesterday. I shot a 117 avg (out of 120) .. i always had one round out of center mass from the 25yrd line. Interesting story..while shooting the post, i made a mistake. We shoth the 25yard line (6 ss baricade, 6 ss kneeling baricade, 6 offside baricade) and then reload mags while moving to the 7 yard line. Welp, i removed the mag from my gun (while it was still in the holster) while talking to a couple of classmates, and accidentally put it in my cargo pocket instead of back in the gun. The next coarse of fire was 6 rounds from kneeling position from the 7 yard line in 10 seconds. The targets turn and i draw down, fire, and the slide locks back. I go into "tap/rack/maim" mode, only to realize there is no mag in the gun lol... I execute the reload and get the remaining 5 rounds off all A zone before time expires. Not that big a deal, but was nice to get a little stress check in there I'm really enjoying the replies, and learning lots. I talked to my firearms instructors, and they've told me basically to come out and shoot as much ammo as i'd like, on open range days. Thats cool, but its still only once a month. Shredding the credit cards seems like the best idea, as this ammo shortage is really got the prices up. Bart was nice enough to send me a holster/mag pouches to get me started. I plan on joining my local gun club for range time, and am saving for a dillon to help with ammo cost. It'll be about a month before i can head to a match (weekends are full up with training) but i'll be headed up to Odies club in sept. Thnx again! p.s. ....yes, the hog is very cute ... Donnie Baker FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgerunnr Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 You started into your quest because it's fun. Well practice your mag changes, grab enough gear to shoot and go. A DOH holster from Bladetech, mag pouches and some extra mags. Find a USPSA club and go to the next match. Let them knwo your a newbie and they will help ya. Dont worry about being fast, just be deliberate and SAFE. Everything else will come with practice . DVD's and Books are great tools to help you get better but go have fun first! Then work on it as you go. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 And make sure it always stays fun, no matter how hard you work at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Jack, Put the gun down! Back away from the reloader! It is not too late for you to get out of this with your wallet intact. And welcome to the forums and the addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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