9mm carry gun for small lady?

[XRe]

I have a friend who asked me about getting a carry gun for his wife. He's got an XD9 sub-compact that she finds to be too violent to shoot. They're not big time gun people - just pro-2nd Amendment and pro-CHL folks who feel a need to be armed, so they don't have a ton of stuff laying around to try out. I also haven't worked with them on the range - I can probably help her technique and get her to where a 9mm of any size is manageable for her... But none of that can happen in the timeframe they're looking at.

So, they're thinking about a .380 for her - I pointed out that most .380s are blowback operated, and are going to kick about as much as a recoil operated 9mm (plus, well, .... .380 sucks, relatively speaking). I'm having trouble coming up with a good 9mm option for her, though. Realize that this is primarily intended as a carry gun, and she's not going to shoot competition with it (otherwise, we'd be looking at a steel framed gun of some flavor for her, probably). They want an auto that she can qualify with (in TX, if you qualify for CHL with a revo, you can only carry a revo - but not the other way around, which seems goofy to me). Any ideas? Small, lighter weight 9mm that tends to have a better recoil profile than an XD-9 sub ???

[Viggen]

You might check out the Kahr, several varieties. To me they feel better than the Springfields.

But as you well know, SMALL GUN = RECOIL.

Could she qualify with a 22 of some type? I know it's not well spoken of by the "gotta carry at least a 45" crowd but it's about the only thing small that is not going recoil with authority.

No matter what, there is no solution without practice.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Viggen

[JThompson]

I have a friend who asked me about getting a carry gun for his wife. He's got an XD9 sub-compact that she finds to be too violent to shoot. They're not big time gun people - just pro-2nd Amendment and pro-CHL folks who feel a need to be armed, so they don't have a ton of stuff laying around to try out. I also haven't worked with them on the range - I can probably help her technique and get her to where a 9mm of any size is manageable for her... But none of that can happen in the timeframe they're looking at.

So, they're thinking about a .380 for her - I pointed out that most .380s are blowback operated, and are going to kick about as much as a recoil operated 9mm (plus, well, .... .380 sucks, relatively speaking). I'm having trouble coming up with a good 9mm option for her, though. Realize that this is primarily intended as a carry gun, and she's not going to shoot competition with it (otherwise, we'd be looking at a steel framed gun of some flavor for her, probably). They want an auto that she can qualify with (in TX, if you qualify for CHL with a revo, you can only carry a revo - but not the other way around, which seems goofy to me). Any ideas? Small, lighter weight 9mm that tends to have a better recoil profile than an XD-9 sub ???

The Beretta PX4 has the lightest recoil of any 9mm I've shot. Also, you have 3 grips to choose from. It's easy to tear down and no problem to clean. I think it's a good choice for people who aren't all that gun savy.

http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotligh..._pistol_px4.cfm

Edited April 8, 2008 by JThompson

[Middle Man]

I find the Kahr polymer frame pistols amenable to such situations. The two caveats would be a long (revolver-esque) trigger and the diminutive pistols necessarily heavy recoil spring. The trigger reach can be problematic for shorter fingers and the slide can be difficult to operate from a strength of hand perspective. The Kahr's single stack-ness is it's best attribute...

The M&P 9c is a bit more ergonomically slim and appears to have a lower bore axis than the XD. Both attributes would make strides towards a nominal solution.

Additionally, I have often day-dreamed about a STI LS9, but have yet to take one to the range.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Middle Man

[XRe]

But as you well know, SMALL GUN = RECOIL.

Yeah, no easy way around that... Adding weight to the gun helps, but she's not likely to carry, say, a 1911 or something like that...

Could she qualify with a 22 of some type?

It has to be centerfire... And I'm not going to suggest that they buy a .25

The Beretta PX4 has the lightest recoil of any 9mm I've shot. Also, you have 3 grips to choose from.

The only issue w/ that, and other "compact" varieties, are that they're still a tad big for her for concealment. The sub-compact size range is what they're looking at, in the end. I know, I know... they didn't give me a whole lot of room to make suggestions...

If I can get her on the range, we can probably work out the recoil sensitivity - after all, I've gotten my wife (who has a right wrist injury that plagues her occasionally) shooting full house CorBon 125gr .357 out of my 3" SP101 after proper grip/stance work, and all. Otherwise... its sort of a no-win situation, unfortunately. I figure I'll suggest finding something that fits her hands best, and work from there, but I'm afraid that "shootable" and "carry-able" are going to be different things for her until we get her technique straightened out....

[HSMITH]

If the budget allows it a Rohrbaugh is the ticket, if the budget is a little tighter a CZ-75 Rami is one of the best compact 9mm guns out there. The CZ is one of the best pistols ever in terms of ergonomics and that alone is huge in reducing perceived recoil, the Rami preserves those ergonomics but with a short grip.

The other thing she may want to look at is an alloy 1911 in a commander format, as easy to carry as anything and typically very soft shooting.

[Middle Man]

...but I'm afraid that "shootable" and "carry-able" are going to be different things...

And to some degree these two more or less opposing features will always be at some distance from one another...

[big_kahuna]

Have y'all considered the Springfield EMP? ALUMINUM frame, short trigger reach, single action... could be a good candidate.

Edited to correct frame material

Edited April 8, 2008 by big_kahuna

[XRe]

I find the Kahr polymer frame pistols amenable to such situations. The two caveats would be a long (revolver-esque) trigger and the diminutive pistols necessarily heavy recoil spring. The trigger reach can be problematic for shorter fingers and the slide can be difficult to operate from a strength of hand perspective. The Kahr's single stack-ness is it's best attribute...

I'll keep those factors in mind when I make a recommendation. I've never shot a Kahr, myself, so I have no experience.

The M&P 9c is a bit more ergonomically slim and appears to have a lower bore axis than the XD. Both attributes would make strides towards a nominal solution.

I do like the M&P - only question is the size of the compact version for her for carry....

Additionally, I have often day-dreamed about a STI LS9, but have yet to take one to the range.

I haven't shot an LS9, yet, either, but like every 1911-ish gun, it has hard/sharp edges straight from the factory. Plus, its relatively expensive for a carry gun (at least for a first gun...). I'd rather recommend something that fits her immediately....

But, I've thought about looking at something like an Escort in 9mm for myself

[AikiDale]

Smith and Wesson has a small 9mm in their Lady Smith line...3913LS maybe? Perhaps Julie can tell you more about it.

[Paul Burtchell]

My suggestion would be the Kahr PM9. VERY light weight, so she will carry it and mild recoil and uber reliable. If my daughter ever switches from her little 38 snubby I think that would be her pistol of choice.

I've owned 4 Kahrs thru the years and have found them to be extremely good values.

[JakeMartens]

Kahr K9, stainless frame, will help reduce felt recoil, but still only weighs 23 ozs

Kahr P9 has the polymer frame and comes in at 15 oz. A 15 oz 9mm is going to

have alot more recoil.

Kahrs are excellent guns, pricey, but they work, have good triggers, easy to carry and are pretty accurate for small guns.

[MichiganShootist]

+5 or 6 to the Kahr

The PM-9 is a great small frame carry gun ... but as stated it kicks pretty well. The good news is there is a ton of 9 mm choices to find a round that is accurate and controllable for her.

[Fireant]

if the budget is a little tighter a CZ-75 Rami is one of the best compact 9mm guns out there. The CZ is one of the best pistols ever in terms of ergonomics and that alone is huge in reducing perceived recoil, the Rami preserves those ergonomics but with a short grip.

+1 on the CZ I have a P-01 and a Rami for the wife.

[Joe4d]

You probably should give up and let them go their own way as you will accomplish nothing but frustrate yourself. I have played this same game many times and it allways goes the same.

"I wanna conceal carry but I just want a little gun "

These people seam to think it is nicer and less barbaric to shoot someone with a little gun. and despite all the info to the contrary they will equate size of the gun to power and recoil. Also you have one concerned partner (usually but not allways the husband who knows a little about guns and is pressuring a wife that is intimidated but goes along with what in her mind is a little less frightening gun. They wont comprehend that a little subcompact KAHR firing a 9mm is alot harder and more recoil and does the same damage that a Para 18-9 5" 1911 firing the same bullet. You'll tell them all day long but they wont believe you. So they buy some nice little gun then get around to going to a range and it kicks and scares them, then because of the short sight radius they cant hit the side of a barn from the inside then most likely the gun sits at home forever with no ammo or in some far seperate locked up place from the ammo. Then you deal with many women who would not dream ever ever ever of changing their wardrobe a little to accomadate concealed carry. and god forbid they buy pants with beltloops and wear a belt.

[cking]

Kahr

[1911user]

steel framed Kahr 9mm

[XRe]

THx, guys... I sent the Kahr K9 series over as a suggestion, along with a couple of thoughts on the wisdom of making a small carry gun the only thing in the house for practice (ie, told them to consider getting something full sized that might be easier and more fun to shoot).

joe4d... I appreciate what you're saying, and yeah, I've been down that road before, too But... lighten up, man

[SA Friday]

OK, this is better than harsh language, and will get her shooting/carrying at the very lease; Beretta Tomcat in .32 ACP loaded with the Winchester 55gr silvertips. It's small fully metal frame and pretty easy to shoot. The DA trigger pull is horrible, but the single action is pretty good. The barrel is a tip-up, so she doesn't have to rack the slide. External safety can be engaged hammer up or hammer down.

I personally don't like anything under 9mm, but if I had to choose between a Tomcat in 32 acp and harsh language, I would be shooting.

[-JQ-]

FWIW - I really like my Sig 250 for CCW...ok so there aren't many holster choices yet.

It is a DAO with really long but really smooth/light pull.

The Subcompact frame is supposed to be out soon, too. I plan on buying that frame/grip when I can find one local.

The compact frame holds 16 rounds and the sub will hold 12 IIRC.

YMMV

[Merlin Orr]

Kel Tec in .380. Standard rounds to practice then load it up with the good stuff for carry. With WWB it is pretty controllable and does not physically hurt to shoot it. Load it with the frangibles for carry. No it won't stop a charging meth head in his tracks. Yes It will make a rapist loose his erection.

[CDRODA396]

I know you've already sent over a suggestion, but I cant believe no one mentioned the G19, its what my 5'5", 115# wife carries and shoots and we all know how reliable a Glock is. Its small enough to carry, big enough to be managable, an all around great Ladies gun IMO.

Just had to get the tupperware plug in!

[chp5]

A S&W M&P Compact is worth a look.

M&P

[rgkeller]

Kahr MK9

Steel framed, nice revolver like trigger.

With Gold Dot 124s, quite unviolent.

Racking the slide might be a problem for a weak woman.

[FranDoc]

... Also you have one concerned partner (usually but not allways the husband who knows a little about guns and is pressuring a wife that is intimidated but goes along with what in her mind is a little less frightening gun. ...

Dave has already seen this, but I post it here because it addresses the issue quoted above and may be applicable to similar situations elsewhere/future.

Yes, this is a gun forum. Yes, I shoot competitively. Yes, I carry (CCW) and teach a women's personal defense class that includes 'handgun 101' for those who have no experience with personally handling a gun. Yes, I believe that any woman interested in learning how to handle a gun should get good instruction and pursue that.

All women want to feel safe, but some haven't made the leap to 'handgun' yet; they need a 'stepping stone' to keep themselves safe while they ramp up to the mindset that allows them to carry AND to practice with whatever they buy. In this situation, something like a Taser C2 (depending upon local law) or Kimber LifeAct may be a viable first step.

This is not intended to open an extensive discussion of the various pros/cons of either of these devices. That discussion is better held elsewhere (and I strongly suspect that Kyle, et al, would close this instantly if that debate evolved). I simply mention this as an option that may be appropriate in select situations.

Of course, a formal class in the mindset of personal protection goes a long way as well.