G-ManBart Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Is anyone familiar with the reason the 1911 has a grip safety and the Browning HP does not? Army requirement. As far as I know, the original design did not have this "feature". Yep, I've read that is was specifically added because of concerns that the Cavalry had. At that time the Cavalry still had significant influence in the Army. I guess they were concerned about reloading while firing mounted since the thumb safety would be disengaged at that point. I'm not sure I can follow their reasoning, but I guess JMB was going to give it to them if they asked for it. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) Is anyone familiar with the reason the 1911 has a grip safety and the Browning HP does not? Army requirement. As far as I know, the original design did not have this "feature". Yep, I've read that is was specifically added because of concerns that the Cavalry had. At that time the Cavalry still had significant influence in the Army. I guess they were concerned about reloading while firing mounted since the thumb safety would be disengaged at that point. I'm not sure I can follow their reasoning, but I guess JMB was going to give it to them if they asked for it. R, Bart is correct. The calvary did have a big influence. If the pistol was not needed at the time or the backup weapon needed to be drawn (sword), they did not want a loaded gun with no extra safety bouncing along side the soldier. That is also why the pistol and the magazine had a lanyard. Edited March 27, 2008 by nm3gnr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Yeah, but I think it would be nicer if it didn't move. I wish that Novak Answer thingy was available and affordable. Many pistol smiths weld up an additional bit of metal at the bottom of the grip safety that traps itself behind the installed main spring housing so that the part doesn't move. I have guns both ways. To me, let it wiggle, but it's personal preference, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I have only on a couple of rare occasions had trouble with my grip safety being UNPINNED. It usually occurs when I have a less than good grip. I do grip high, but my hands are large enough that I don't seem to have trouble, unless as I said, I have not really gripping the gun. I do know that some people with shorter hands seem to have trouble with an unpinned safety. I would like to see a grip safety with a significantly raied portion so that it would still function, but a real high and loose grip would still work. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam815 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Yeah, but I think it would be nicer if it didn't move. I wish that Novak Answer thingy was available and affordable. Many pistol smiths weld up an additional bit of metal at the bottom of the grip safety that traps itself behind the installed main spring housing so that the part doesn't move. I have guns both ways. To me, let it wiggle, but it's personal preference, of course. I have a Colt 1991 as well as a Para P16, the colt is active while the P16 is not. Being left handed, I have a ambi safety on both and usually engage them after I've acquired target. Since the P16 primarily a competition gun it doesn't really matter, however the Colt could be used for carry therefore I would leave that one alone in case I ever had to defend myself in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Pinned on both of mine! I have shot others that were not and had trouble on at least one occasion. I had to take my thumb off the safety to engage the grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 When I started out in competition and was fairly new to the 1911 design, I was adamantly against the idea of disabling the grip safety in any way. I then was exposed to competition where truth tends to show itself in a really big way. One draw and yank on the trigger without the ability for the gun to fire convinced me that the grip safety had to go. On my Open Division gun, it is taped down. My Limited-10 gun has the leg filed down so it moves but never holds the trigger bar forward. I think you will find this to be a pretty typical experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Been wanting to pin mine. Never had any problem on my limited gun but I miss all the time on my open gun so I have it taped. I've never seen one pinned. I read the "how to" directions previously posted but I do better with visuals. Could someone please post a pic of a pinned grip safety? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyg00 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 stopped pinning many years ago-just file down the tang on the inside of the grip safety-same effect without the pin. +1 on all competition guns Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootin-blanks Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I vote for: two strokes of the file... grip safety, is now a "non-issue"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I used to make my grip safeties so sensitive all you had to do was breath on them. Then I opted for pinning the safety so it didn't wiggle. Now I am a tang whacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I have my limited gun taped rather than pinned. I never dreamed that I would have a problem activating the safety but I sure did, and I could not seem to fix it so out comes the tape. Seem crazy to have a high dollar gun with black tape on it, but I got use to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Been wanting to pin mine. Never had any problem on my limited gun but I miss all the time on my open gun so I have it taped. I've never seen one pinned. I read the "how to" directions previously posted but I do better with visuals. Could someone please post a pic of a pinned grip safety? Thanks. DonT -- I was cannibalizing the trigger job from one gun to put into another, so I took the liberty of snapping a photo. I wasn't really sure how it all worked either, prior to seeing it. I just know, I likes it! Here you go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 A while ago a guy managed to shoot himself in the leg during Nationals. Amongst other things the grip-safety was pinned. He would have earned himself a DQ for the finger on the trigger in any case but the whole thing convinced me about leaving safeties intact. Sure it should never happen, but sometimes it just happens and I am very squeamish when it comes to my own blood. With today's built up grip-safeties I honestly do not think that it is necessary to pin a safety for reliabilities sake. If someone gets hurt the lawyers will probable make a big thing about the pinned safety trying to make out that you are some kind of reckless lunatic for deactivating a safety. This is my opinion and opinions are like noses- everyone has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 My guns either have them totally defeated or set to only require a very slight depression of the grip safety to allow the gun to fire. I grip the gun high enough I need them that way or I will have guns that don't shoot when I want them to. The thumb safety and my trigger finger (primary safety on ANY gun) prevent them from firing when I do not want them to. I too grip them high, and it's been an issue, but have a problem disabling ANY safety feature. Instead I added a piece of grip tape to the memory bump on the safety to give me the extra little bit of depression needed. I've drawn the gun trying to get fast first shots and it's bit me in the ass, but that little grip tape made a huge difference. I somehow flipped off the spring in my grip safety on my 2011 and it bothered me mentally and I had to fix it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demax Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) I have two STI EDGEs. One of them has pinned safety and another doesn't. Truely speaking I feel no difference ... Edited April 3, 2008 by Demax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Some so-called gunsmiths can only get a good trigger if they disconnect the grip-safety. The other ones, the good gun-smiths get an excellent trigger and leaves the grip-safety intact. Having said that, if I cannot get my gun to run reliably with a grip safety I would probably make a plan with the grip-safety. I still prefer it to have my grip safety working though. It is just that I do understand the opposing point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Some so-called gunsmiths can only get a good trigger if they disconnect the grip-safety. The other ones, the good gun-smiths get an excellent trigger and leaves the grip-safety intact. Having said that, if I cannot get my gun to run reliably with a grip safety I would probably make a plan with the grip-safety. I still prefer it to have my grip safety working though. It is just that I do understand the opposing point of view. I've done several 1911 trigger jobs and the grip safety has NO effect on the feel of the trigger, at all. Look at some 1911 diagrams and read some of the published trigger job info on Brownells and you'll see this. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWord Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 None of my 1911 style pistols has the grip safety disabled. I have never had an issue with mine. However, I have big meaty hands. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 None of my 1911 style pistols has the grip safety disabled. I have never had an issue with mine. Same here. Plus... I dunno, I like the idea of knowing it is there and functional, "just in case". B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Been wanting to pin mine. Never had any problem on my limited gun but I miss all the time on my open gun so I have it taped. I've never seen one pinned. I read the "how to" directions previously posted but I do better with visuals. Could someone please post a pic of a pinned grip safety? Thanks. DonT -- I was cannibalizing the trigger job from one gun to put into another, so I took the liberty of snapping a photo. I wasn't really sure how it all worked either, prior to seeing it. I just know, I likes it! Here you go: Ooohhhh, that's how it's done. Thank you Now I have a project for the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta Lover Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I'm trying to decided whether or not to pin my grip safety on my Open gun. How many of you guys do it? ...I guess I better read the rules first, eh?Darren the 1911 had the grip safety added for horse soldiers in case they dropped the pistol from the horse, not bouncing, etc. Incidentally drop testing height even to this day in many cases is still derived from the same height as horseback (though I cannot remember the height of a horses back, they never let me have a horse) This was something some NCO told me some boring place a 100 years ago The lanyard loop goes back to virtually every military handgun from that time period having one provided (if you have been to ranger school you would be a lanyard guy too, though it's called a dummy chord for everything else) I was at my very first 3 gun match and one of the top guys from the area had his blaster fall out of his holster pretty early in the match and have heard of people drawing their pistol and dropping them (maybe throwing them I guess) It would be a shame for someone to catch a 200 grainer from you because you deactivated your grip safety I dont disable safeties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1911 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 "stopped pinning many years ago-just file down the tang on the inside of the grip safety-same effect without the pin" Me too, I just file the tang down to what would be best reffered to as a "hair trigger grip safety", that way it is still technicaly funcional depending on what rules apply, but it dissengages the second my hand touches it, I also file back the mainspring housing stop allowing the safety to stick as far out as possible ensuring positive dissengament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proff Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I like to pin the saftey rather than file the leg. You can pull the pin out and have a functioning saftey if need be. Technical note: If you are doing a pinning yourself drill the mainspring housing first and be sure it is straight, then put some Prussian Blue on the end of the pin and slide it to the saftey, then drill where the blue is on the saftey. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Some so-called gunsmiths can only get a good trigger if they disconnect the grip-safety. The other ones, the good gun-smiths get an excellent trigger and leaves the grip-safety intact. Having said that, if I cannot get my gun to run reliably with a grip safety I would probably make a plan with the grip-safety. I still prefer it to have my grip safety working though. It is just that I do understand the opposing point of view. I've done several 1911 trigger jobs and the grip safety has NO effect on the feel of the trigger, at all. Look at some 1911 diagrams and read some of the published trigger job info on Brownells and you'll see this. Darren Yep! the grip safety should have no effect on the trigger job unless you have one of the grip safety activiated firing pin blocks but still they can manuevered around. On my competition guns I just cut off the arm on the inside that interacts with the trigger bow and let them flop around. My extremely high grip won't allow me to shoot a 1911/2011 with a grip safety that isn't deactivated OR has a large memory bump welded up on the bottom of the grip safety ie twice as high as the Ed Brown memory bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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