Where Have The Revolver Shooters Gone...

[Ron Ankeny]

Well, after a decade of not even owning a decent revolver, I decided to try my hand at the wheel gun in IPSC. When I was shooting early NRA Action Pistol and PPC there were hundreds of master class and higher shooters all over the nation who were very, very good with a revolver. I have personally competed with at least a dozen guys who when in their prime could easily classify as Master shooters on IPSC classifiers (the ones without standing reloads anyway). I know most of those guys either quit shooting or they have switched over to semi-automatics and it seems to me like there is one hell of a lot of talent out there that is just going to waste. Where have the revolver shooters all gone? Are they in ICORE, retired, IDPA, shooting Open with trifocals??? Just curious.

[BrianH]

The two regular wheelgunners I knew and shot with back in the late '80's, early 90's have totally left the sport. Lee Sancoy, most have probably been CRO'ed by him back in Barry, he was revo only....drew from inside the pants, behind the hip, too....in IPSC!!!!!!! If he's anywhere, its prob. IDPA, but not around here...

[Tom Mainus]

Ron,

I have been shooting revolver exclusively since the 2001 area 5 match. I just love it. It is to the point now that I really have a hard time picking up a 1911. It just seems to foreign to me. Here in Wi. we have maybe 3 guys who shoot wheelguns, thats it. I was suprised at area 6 this year that their was 10 revos in the match. I have also noticed that the average age of the guys shooting revos is probably 55 and up. Not many younger shooters are willing to pick one up and even try it. I have only been shooting for a couple of years and am relatively young yet, 31. I have heard everything from you are crazy to shoot IPSC with a revolver to how slow and boring it looks, standing reloads etc. You have heard it all too. But every month at our local match I can easily place in the top third with my wheelgun. It is a totally different game with a revo. You really have to be accurate, you only got six to play with. I think a lot of it has to do with guys are afraid to try it because they know how hard it is to do. You approach a stage differently when you don't have 20 rds in the mag to spray and pray with. It takes alot more work to become efficent with a revo than it does with a 1911. I am proud to be among the minority of the sport.

[Chuck D]

As an "old" PPC Master and a NRA Action Pistol High Master, I've been a revolver fan for years. Two things kill revolver shooting for me. First, the dead standing reload. If we as an organization can not come up with a way to eliminate at least SOME of the standing reloads in a course of fire the division will NEVER grow. As it has been made perfectly clear by USPSA that the concept of "revolver neutral" will never be instituted...I see no hope for the future. Secondly, after purchasing a 8 shot 627 from the S&W Perf.Center USPSA saw fit to only allow six shots to be fired before a reload. Now I own a 1000.00 tack driver of a revolver that I can use as a tack hammer. What good is owning equiptment that you can't use to its full potential? It's like owning an Open gun and the rules won't allow you to have ports cut into the compensator. What good is it?

The reason for the small number of revolver shooters in USPSA is the fact that USPSA won't support the division in a way in which it needs to promote growth.

[Patrick Sweeney]

We drove them out in the late 80's and early 90's when we didn't get a handle on the capacity wars. There was a really good wheelgunner in Ohio, Kevin Kaltenbach, who even built an Open revolver, but had to quit when the swarms of 18-shot magazines started showing up. (He even beat me.) He'd be a killer wheelgunner by now, but he does.....I don't know what.

In PPC, they've embraced "the dark side" and shoot with pistols now. Yes, they have wheelgunners still, but for how long? Once every PD uses a Glock/SW/Sig/Ruger whatever, who'll shoot revo?

USPSA is like a rock climber without the next handload. We can't expand the equipment divisions because we don't have the revolver base. We can't get the revolver base expanded without the extra divisions. And if we did, then what? Stock, Limited and Open Revolver?

[EricW]

The demise of the revolver is probably a reflection of commercial reality. The majority of handguns sold today are *not* revolvers. I doubt there's anything USPSA can do about that. If we're looking to fill up divisions, make one called "Subcompact Automatic." That's what's selling in the market, not wheelguns.

[Chuck D]

Thank God the NRA doesn't consider revolver owners "second class citizens" the way USPSA does. Revolver division will NEVER be as popular as Open,Limited or L10 but they are an untapped resource that as far as I can see only ICORE shows the necessary interest in exploiting it.

[spook]

You just have to really like the tactics of revolver shooting to do it in IPSC/USPSA. So many times I hear: "Man, I'm glad I'm not you on this stage...all those reloads...."

I don't get that. I think the people who don't shoot revolver anymore do.

[Ron Ankeny]

ChuckD:

I too am an old PPC Master and NRA Action Pistol Master with a revolver. I agree with you 100 per cent that USPSA is doing nothing to support the division. I also understand that the revolver is a dinosaur in the handgunning world. What I am wondering about is have the old revolver shooters just quit? It kinda looks that way and it's a shame.

I enjoy shooting a six round speed shoot or a revolver neutral classifier, but shooting a revolver in a typical IPSC club match just seems too out of the ordinary and with a standing reload from every position it is almost sadistic. I suppose I will shoot enough classifiers to get bragging rights to "paper revolver Master" then sell the gun and forget about it. I wouldn't be suprised to see revolver division eliminated al together in the not too distant future.

Maybe I need to get an old model 15 and shoot some IDPA matches. IDPA seems to be at least half way revolver friendly. I really would like to shoot a wheel gun for a few more years before my arthritis gets real bad and while I can still see the sights. I dunno, maybe I should just shoot my open blaster.

[Rufus The Bum]

What I don't understand is that the IRC can draw the crowds they do and yet we can barely get anyone to shoot the USPSA Natl's with a Revolver. Maybe it's because they have promoted revolver competition, unlike USPSA. I have been shooting race guns for years and have only recently switched to revolver, I will be shooting my first Area match with a Rev later this year. I think it's wonderful because it's a completely different game compared to Ltd or Open.

[Chuck D]

Ron

The older I get, the more nostalgic I get.

I would LOVE to see USPSA put forth the effort required to help revolver division along.

As far as revolver division being eliminated...as long as its an IPSC competition division, it should be a USPSA competition division and I would fight "tooth and nail" to keep it so. My Area director is in agreement.

The problem with "shuffling" off to IDPA to shoot your revolver is once they "shuffle off"...most of them never return thereby goes the answer to the original question...where did they go?

I'd also like to ask ...does USPSA care where they've gone and do they want them back?

[John Dunn]

Ron,

I wonder if the Cowboy shooting world has lured away some of the revolver shooters around here. I saw on American Shooter that the End of Trail match had around 650 shooters. That's a lot of wheelguns, no automatics allowed.

[Flexmoney]

I look at this from a different angle.

With a USPSA match nearly every weekend...that gives revolver shooters sowmewhere to play. (I am truely not trying to be smug, I see every USPSA match as 5 matches rolled into one.)

In my area, we are lucky enough to have a Steel Challenge type match and a NRA type match. Without those, USPSA would be the only game for Revolvers.

[Ron Ankeny]

Chuck D:

I guess I am just being nostalgic too. It's really disheartening knowing that revolver shooting has become a lost art. It is almost sad that we have an entire generation of competition shooters who will never experience what it is like to shoot a revolver well. I would dare say most of them will never even get to watch an IPSC revolver Master or A class shooter make that cylinder spin. Oh well, I guess I need to embrace progress and get that Open blaster going again, lol.

[Chuck D]

Ron

My parents came over for dinner over the holiday weekend. My dad happened to bring an old photo of me at age 16 shooting a 6 inch nickle plated Colt Python in one of our local (now defunct) club matches. God that thing was ugly (the gun...not me). He still owns it and shoots it a bit but boy does THAT bring back a few memories.

We had a guy here in Western N.Y. named Tommy East whom regularly waxed the "slab side" guys with his Smith model 66. He was a true gem of a human being and much fun to watch work his "magic".

I really miss those days. It seems we as a sport have progressed much further that I thought possible but we've lost something along the way. Hopefully we can get some of that old magic back and pass it on.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I have been shooting revolver in IPSC & IDPA for about 20 years. I think the question is: Where have "all" the shooters gone. I have been doing an unscientific study of USPSA membership numbers. Very few are below 30,000 and many are above 40,000. USPSA has lost 30 or 40 thousand paying members. Stage design has something to do with it.

Bill Nesbitt

[shred]

Much as I'd like to blame "modern" course design, I think that's natural turnover. The "joined-post-kid folks" are getting up in years, the "joined-pre-kid folks" have kids now and the "joined-as-kids" are chasing girls and cars in college. The cycle rolls on with new shooters. There are still a few of us stuck in the sprockets, but A20000 was issued eleven years ago and A30000 eight years ago.

[Duane Thomas]

It is almost sad that we have an entire generation of competition shooters who will never experience what it is like to shoot a revolver well.

If you want to feel really sad, think about this: most police officers come to the academy with zero firearms experience. Most police officers have never shot any firearm other than their service handgun - and maybe a 12 gauge pump shotgun. Most police officers serving today were trained on auto pistols. This means we're working on an entire generation of police officers, most of whom have never fired a revolver.

[Duane Thomas]

It takes alot more work to become efficent with a revo than it does with a 1911.

A few months ago, the president of our local IDPA club shot a match with a revolver. He had an old 1917 .45, got the period belt holster, the whole nine yards and, as he put it, "competed in Barney Fife division." The amazing thing is, this was the first time he'd ever fired a revolver. And we're talking about a serious shooter here, a B-class USPSA competitor, and Sharpshooter in IDPA. He commented afterward, "It's just never made sense to me, to put a lot of work into getting really good with a revolver when auto pistols exist. That's like putting a lot of work into getting really good with a manual can opener when there are so many good electric can openers out there."

[underlug]

Did you respond :"If there ever is a blackout, it would be nice to be handy with the manual can opener"?

[SRT Driver]

I started shooting IPSC with an 6 inch M14, Comp3 speedloaders and 148 gr Wadcutters (130 pf).

Long story, short - at first, the seasoned shooters said "this is not something you see ever day.. a southpaw shooting a wheelgun at an IPSC match." Then it became "at least you can reload that thing and hit something." Didn't do too bad at the match either.

I've been shooting the "other" divisions for a couple of years and recently Open exclusively but I'm still "the guy with the revolver."

Shooting a wheelgun in PPC, NRA Action and, at first, IPSC taught me volumes and showed me that I have to pay attention to what is happening. For that, I couldn't have choosen a better path.

[Bubber]

Bill, I too compete in IPSC using a Revo (sort of). We had a friend there in Arizona that tricked out our six shot revo's cut down the comp IIIs & Jet loaders to get faster reloads. We also studied the reload and got rid of most of the unecessarry movement. I can't remember the year we put dots and hybrids on the revos but it was before they caught on in IPSC. I am an Open A shooter this was with my Revo before the classifiers went nuts. I still am able to get 65% ocassioanlly gusting to 70%. IPSC recognizes my revo as an open blaster so that is the division I shoot in. It is a modified 27-2 with eight shots. My friend built these guns before S&W came out with theirs. Well I've gone on enuff and will pipe down for now.

[Wakal]

I seem to be going backwards.

Just set up a 4" 625-4 with a fiber front sight and a set of "Jerry's" grips. Blade-tech holster and a whole pile of moon clip holders on a Safariland belt. First match was Sunday, shot (if my math was right) a 68% classifier. Pretty much right on, since I'm just a sucky 70-75% B shooter.

Sure was fun, though.

Alex

[Madmark]

When California passes a semi-auto-anything ban, there may be a resurgence in wheelgunning. I for one had a hard time picking up my first autoloader. But the USPSA 6 shot rule made the 686+ 7 shooter I owned when I joined seem like bad equipment.

I stood on a similar equipment threshold in the early 80's. I was a typewriter technician who just couldn't embrace the electronic computerized machines..............

The answer to where all the revolver shooters have gone:

They're not really gone, They are still shooting the last stage!!!

[George D]

When California passes a semi-auto-anything ban, there may be a resurgence in wheelgunning.

If the California anti-gun nuts are anything like the Australian anti-gun nuts then the definition of "semi-auto" will include all guns that can fire more than one shot by just pulling the trigger, which includes double action revolvers. When John Howard, who has announced publicly that he hates guns, confiscated all semi-auto shotguns in 1996 the definition included single trigger under and overs. They were later quietly exempted to allow our shooters to compete in the Olympics. It was interesting that Howard was the first on the scene to be photographed with the Australian Gold Medal Trap shooter at the Olympic stadium.