Politically Correct Stage Designs

[JFD]

I set up a stage a few years ago that some found to be non-PC, maybe even a little sick.

Parents got it, single folks didn't.

Part of the stage involved a pair of targets side-by-side (touching). In the middle, covering both inside C zones and a little of the A zones I had suspended my daughter's old Elmo stuffed creature. Still worked, so it would make that irritating laugh and say whatever stupid things it always said.

"Suspending" it involved a very well tied hangman's noose. I beleive I also stapled his hands and feet as close to the A zones as I could so there was a greater chance of him getting hit.

The stage was named "Saving Elmo?" and the course description made it clear there would be no penalties for shooting the irritating little bastard. While he was hit several times, he never quit "talking". I was kind of pissed. Finally emptied 2 mags of .45 auto into him at the end of the match and he was history.

[joecichlid]

LOL I hate that little red monster!!

[cz75ipsc]

Slightly drifting here, but hey, it's an old thread.

I'm all for Classic targets. I think that if the number of people offended by the fact that we shoot the Metric target is even one more than the number of people offended when we're shooting the Classic target, it's worth it to ditch the Metric. And I'm pretty sure it's more than one person. I for one have a naive thought that one day some type of action pistol shooting would be an Olympic sport, and I'm POSITIVE that the Metric target does nothing good for action pistol shooting in the eyes of an average person who doesn't own a gun and doesn't think highly of them. Plus I think the Metric target is better because it's smaller and thus increases the sometimes-lost concept of accuracy in our sport. Just my opinion.

Drifting even from my own post... Have you ever wondered why no-shoots are white and scoring targets are brown...?

[Flexmoney]

I've often wondered why cardboard boxes are brown. It haunts my every waking moment.

I am sure that most No-shoots are white...and hardcover is black (most often) because that makes them easy to distinguish.

(and, all that fits into the rules)

4.1.2.1 The scoring area of scoring paper targets must be of a typical cardboard color.

4.1.3 Penalty targets must be clearly marked or be of a single color different from scoring targets.

[herky]

Maybe you have to many waking moments.

[Rob Boudrie]

...I'm POSITIVE that the Metric target does nothing good for action pistol shooting in the eyes of an average person who doesn't own a gun and doesn't think highly of them.

How would you feel about mandating the removal of doors, windows, tables, and anything else which gives the impression of a "scenario" and replacing these with abstract skills testing exercised which do not resemble real life gunfighting encounters?

[Jim Norman]

I set up a stage a few years ago that some found to be non-PC, maybe even a little sick.

Parents got it, single folks didn't.

Part of the stage involved a pair of targets side-by-side (touching). In the middle, covering both inside C zones and a little of the A zones I had suspended my daughter's old Elmo stuffed creature. Still worked, so it would make that irritating laugh and say whatever stupid things it always said.

"Suspending" it involved a very well tied hangman's noose. I beleive I also stapled his hands and feet as close to the A zones as I could so there was a greater chance of him getting hit.

The stage was named "Saving Elmo?" and the course description made it clear there would be no penalties for shooting the irritating little bastard. While he was hit several times, he never quit "talking". I was kind of pissed. Finally emptied 2 mags of .45 auto into him at the end of the match and he was history.

A couple years back we had a "Barney" stage. One of my employees had a kids chair with a Barney cover, we took the cover off and used it as soft cover over a target. You'd be surprised how many extra shots were fired at that and how many people weree singing " I Hate You, You Hate Me. GD Barney" and other less printable ditties.

...I'm POSITIVE that the Metric target does nothing good for action pistol shooting in the eyes of an average person who doesn't own a gun and doesn't think highly of them.

How would you feel about mandating the removal of doors, windows, tables, and anything else which gives the impression of a "scenario" and replacing these with abstract skills testing exercised which do not resemble real life gunfighting encounters?

The people that do not like us will never like us. Taking away the chairs, tables, windows and doors will not make us their best friend.

Anyone here ever notice that many parents that would never let their little Johnny have a gun have no problem letting them Paintball? Lets see, we shoot paper and steel and stress NEVER point a gun at anyone, They let their kid actually shoot each other. Go Figure.

Jim Norman

[Bill Rosenthal]

Humanoid targets, being of cardboard or flesh and blood are exactly what handguns were conceived to shoot. Don't kid yourselves because we made a casual sport of it!

[cz75ipsc]

How would you feel about mandating the removal of doors, windows, tables, and anything else which gives the impression of a "scenario" and replacing these with abstract skills testing exercised which do not resemble real life gunfighting encounters?

I understand your point. To ME it's a matter of degrees (isn't everything?), and _I_ draw the line between real-life-like props and humanoid targets. And stages named "drug deal gone bad" (an actual stage name in a level III competition).

A long story short, my family and close friends aren't really pro-gun, and I've taken almost every one of them to the range with me. It's been a LOT easier for them to come to grips with the fact that I'm shooting a sport, nothing more, when I've set up steel and classic targets than when I've set up metric targets and have them shoot the "stage".

Anyways, this probably isn't going to change anything, but I just want to share my successful experiences "going against the grain" with the views of my family and friends. A few of them actually reversed their views on guns and one even bought a gun and started shooting with me. I'd like to think because I didn't "scare him off" with a metric target, as I did the first few I took to the range.

Although I've really taken a stand against the metric target, I have to admit I do like it on some fast hoser stages because of it's size, and the fact that when you shoot classic 95% of the time, you CAN'T miss a metric

[wgnoyes]

...I'm POSITIVE that the Metric target does nothing good for action pistol shooting in the eyes of an average person who doesn't own a gun and doesn't think highly of them.

How would you feel about mandating the removal of doors, windows, tables, and anything else which gives the impression of a "scenario" and replacing these with abstract skills testing exercised which do not resemble real life gunfighting encounters?

Careful, you might sound like a certain IPSC, um..., "leader" with whom we all had a go 'round some years back.

Edited February 21, 2006 by wgnoyes

[DMH]

I couldn't agree more. If you can make it fun, humorous, silly or even un-PC it seems to be more palatable to the folks who really don't understand what we do. Geared up, planning shots, and acting scary can intimidate others. We won't change the anti-gunners minds, but we can introduce ourselves as fun friendly people and hopefully recruit others.

If it takes toilet seats, cupie dolls, or action figures, enjoy yourself and laugh a bit...

[TreblePlink]

I've always wondered about the consistency of white targets - shoot them for steel, but avoid them for cardboard.

As far as political correctness of our sport, stage naming, target shapes, etc., Its clear that there is a certain segment of our population which will remain opposed to us regardless of our attempts at moderation. I don't know what percentage this group would be, but those folks we can dismiss. Then there is the current membership - we don't need to convince the choir.

But there is another group, I'd like to think a fair portion of the mainstream, who are more rational and will respond to reason and logic. This is the group we should try to persuade and recruit.

I've though about this a lot recently, being in the position of trying to promote our sport in my region of Kentucky.

Its harder to do this when we can't seem to make up our minds about being a sport or a martial art. I tell people we're a sport, but when they get on the national org's website and see "Armed Response" books for sale, and go to the press area and are sent to the FAQ page which juxtaposes us with "fun with explosives", it can be a little difficult to explain. In a time where terrorism is a major problem, I can understand somebody's hesitation at getting involved with a group that seems to include recreational explosives, however well-meaning and harmless it may actually be. I think we need to actively avoid any appearance of being a Rambo school.

I personally feel that where simple modifications can be made to win over this fence-sitter group, we'd be better off for it. A larger membership would do wonders to push our sport closer to the mainstream - more clubs and better matches for all.

Then again, I make the assumption that we all want our sport to grow.

[Flexmoney]

I don't see a problem with being a sport...based in a martal art. There are lots of those.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._46/ai_58446505

[TreblePlink]

Perhaps that's not the best analogy, but I still think that the more "sport" it is, the easier our recruitment becomes.

I don't see a problem with being a sport...based in a martal art. There are lots of those.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._46/ai_58446505

[cz75ipsc]

but I still think that the more "sport" it is, the easier our recruitment becomes.

That's exactly my point.

[SinistralRifleman]

Actually I have gotten a lot more gun owners involved in shooting competitively, when I tell them it is a good place to practice their martial skills (gun handling and marksmanship), wring out their equipment, and have fun...everyone treating it like "bullet-golf" turns a lot of people who own guns off to it. I put on an intro to multi-gun class for free at our shop every month. Most of the time this class is full. I see many of these people at our local matches, some more often than others. Attendance at our local multi-gun matches is up at least 10-20% in the past year. If you want more people involved in the sport, make it appealing to the people who already have guns and gear.

The government does not recognize IPSC/USPSA or others as "sports", they are "shooting competitions that utilize military style firearms."

You won't convert hard core anti-gunners. Simply having an organized sport in which you use firearms, regardless of the stage design props etc, is enough to make it seem legitimate to most fence sitters.

I think knowing the audience you are designing the stages for is key...if you want to accomplish something with your match, and in doing so it offends some people, well they won't come back next year.

Edited April 11, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[Garryowen]

Well all of my "guns" we designed and built with killing either people or animals in mind (Glocks, 1911s, Cz-75, etc.). If you are uncomfortable with shooting at vaguely humanoid shaped targets, maybe "Air Soft" is more the game for you. But then again, I’m one of those crazy people who actually carry a gun on me all the time.

[PaperHater]

(hint: if you oppose capital punishment, one of these stages would probably not be for you)......

Go for it. One stage I built for the Golden Gate match named "The Rock" after the movie & Alcatraz prison had an electric chair, water balloons, and a functional lawn sprinkler/decontamination shower.

Way back in the day, right after the first RoboCop movie I built a stage with a female hostage that required that you knock down a popper by shooting between the hostage's legs just like RoboCop shot the bad guy in the .... movie.

I used an old Tee shirt for the hostage's skirt as soft cover (just like in the movie) and to make sure that everyone knew it was a female hostage I used another Tee shirt with a pair of balloons underneath. What I didn't tell anyone, the balloons were partially filled with cranberry juice.

You guessed it, a wiseacre shot the balloons. The reaction was priceless.

I've thought about making bleeding no-shoots by glueing ketchup packets to a no-shoot then painting the whole thing white or covering it with a sheet of white paper.

But then everyone knows I ain't politically correct or even correct most of the time.

Funny, could never get away with it here but very funny.

[iweiny]

I don't see a problem with being a sport...based in a martal art. There are lots of those.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._46/ai_58446505

Well a quick search on google of "practical shooting olympics" turned up this link.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/goldcont.htm

Note the relavance to this thread at the bottom of this page.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/goldfour.htm

Boy does this get the blood boiling

Ira

PS I was not looking for a fight. REALLY, I just wanted to see if in fact Practical Shooting was allowed to be a non-medal game in 2004. And this is the first link I got from google...

[SinistralRifleman]

I don't see a problem with being a sport...based in a martal art. There are lots of those.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._46/ai_58446505

Well a quick search on google of "practical shooting olympics" turned up this link.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/goldcont.htm

Note the relavance to this thread at the bottom of this page.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/goldfour.htm

Boy does this get the blood boiling

Ira

PS I was not looking for a fight. REALLY, I just wanted to see if in fact Practical Shooting was allowed to be a non-medal game in 2004. And this is the first link I got from google...

If those people hate us, we're doing something right....you will never be able to change their minds or influence them.

[Paule]

Getting mugged seems to be the surest way to convert a PC naysayer. The percentage of anti-gunners who get the gun religion after a close encounter is wonderfully high. Most recent I know was a Brady sycophant in Philadelphia (friend of a friend), who is now attending every shooting and self defense class she can find. And preaching it to all her HCI buddies too. As they say, nothing worse than a reformed drunk. (or better!)

[Sam]

I'm gonna tune up and rant here, just a little......

Political Correctness is as very shallow attempt to substitue "code words" for genuine kindness and common courtesy. In order to be "acceptable" to enlightened society the individual must first shed his own identity and then adopt this vague sort of universal niceness that considers the feelings of everyone in every situation. I'm supposed to tolerate everbody's culture except my own. I'm supposed to be a male instead of a man. I'm supposed to pretend that I workout to stay healthy instead of to defend my family. I'm supposed to pretend that my guns are for games instead of defense against bad people. I'm supposed to let people slither in here from some hell-hole of a country and watch serenely while they wave their national flag and burn mine. I live where i live because I can't stand to be any closer to what passes for civilization these days. I just don't trust anyone that circles around what they say or do like a coyote comming in to a carcass. I prefer polite folks who kindly say what they mean, and mean what they say. You follow the PC crowd if you want to, and I'll think to myself that you are definately part of the problem.

But I'm very polite, so you'll never know it.

[Barlin]

Sam, Wow, that poetic. I can't improve upon Sam's thoughts but I would add something that I tell my sons nearly everyday and this 'you are what you are and be proud of that'. No matter how you define what we do, either sport, game or self-defense training, we are what we are. It is not in our mission statement to enter into the pro-gun debate, that is the personal responsibility of each of us as gun owners, not the USPSA. It serves no purpose to geld ourselves in a hopeless attempt to win the approval of the media or that it is vital to increase our membership roles with converted 'antis' by offering watered down whisky. Our focus should always remain an unflinching commitment to safety and competent gun handling, and in the end, that the best weapon in the pro-gun debate.

[Sam]

This is a pretty funny thread when I stop to think about it.

Our society has the Hollywood PC crowd, like Woody H., Tom C., Alec B., who simulate blowing peoples guts and brains out all over the big screen. And here we are trying to have a well-reasoned discussion about whether or not the appearance of our cardboard might give offense.

In light of that, I guess wouldn't mind shooting all amoeba targets and steel in our matches........as soon as Hollywood quits making violent films and Rosie and Teddy tell their bodyguards to quit packing.

[joecichlid]

In honor of this thread I have an idea for a stage to shoot this Friday night. If it goes over well I will have to report on it. lol A lot of the guys I shoot with are just twisted enough to really get into it.